@NothinnXpreVails

Scooby Doo.

All I ever needed to know I learned in Saturday morning cartoons.

That's a fair assessment.

@WeaZ Exactly, when you die you are just in the next "room" for a while until you get to move on. A lady I knew died and her friend was there for her death. Later when second lady was driving home (husband a straight Catholic was driving) she asked nobody in particular "I wonder if she has passed over yet"? Some people believe that you stick around for a while before going on into whatever. Her phone rang, it was a text. This lady does not text. The text said "yes I have and I'm figuring things out"!! This was not the only time I heard of a text coming from over there.

@WeaZ The only thing I have to go with is the lady is not into WOO_WOO and I asked the husband if he saw the text and he said "yes" Also, when somebody whom i know dies I think "Wow, now they know"

@WeaZ Had to look that one up, interesting.

@WeaZ Thought of that, this lady never texts and her friends do not text her. maybe a text from someone intended for someone else? A total mistake but the timing is unreal. No final answers until I go.

@WeaZ You're younger than me, I'll get back to you. haha

@WeaZ Well, our bodies run on chemical/electrical energy which cannot be destroyed according to physics, so where does it go? Until later...

@WeaZ we just don't know. this has been interesting, later dude.

The cool people don't think you are crazy, they think you are interesting and outside the box. The nerds think you are crazy but I'll tell you a secret - All the Best People Are.

I think it's sensible to say that we don't know certain things, and that some day we might know more. Science is a process and things can be learned over time, for sure.

Where the resistance comes from here, just like with religious belief, is when people believe things without evidence. To claim that something is the reason, when the claim is extraordinary, would require extraordinary evidence.

I too have had things occur, which appear to be only possible due to the existence of ghosts, but that's only because I don't know how they happened. That, for me, is not reason to conclude it's ghosts, or, as religious people do, assume something happened because of god.

Science perhaps, has "not gotten that far" as you say, but, to date, it's the best possible method we have for determining what is true.

@Athena my solution is not to believe in anything 100% lol. I'm almost more agnostic in the sense that I don't know, I accept I don't know, and thus accept the possibility as such. Gravity was once a theory. I like to think all knowledge is actually just theory lol

I am on the fence with you but I think we both know what people say when they ask you what you think about ghosts and you tell them the truth about what you have experienced. Creepy Crazy Motherfucker! lol
That's why I don't usually come out and say what I actually think on the topic because there are a lot of people that want to point the finger at you for admitting what you have actually experienced, oddly enough I have found some of them have also experienced ghosts or some similar phenomena and just don't have the guts to admit it in public.

@Surfpirate Exactly.

@Captain747ex That's the very mindset that inhibits the quest for knowledge, scientific knowledge.

@Surfpirate Very true. It's unfortunate that people don't ask questions and attempt to find an answer instead of settling for the unknown, or God did it.

What did you actually see and how do you know it was a ghost?

@Heraclitus Well, when I'm looking at something that shouldn't be there, what else could it be? When I was younger, I was staying at my grandparents house sleeping on a cot in the living room with full view of the kitchen. I couldn't sleep that night and rolled on my stomach and looked at the kitchen table. There were four people sitting at the table. They were like a translucent, powdery white. I could make out the clothes they were wearing and everything. I could see they where talking but couldn't hear what they were saying. I was questioning myself if I was actually seeing all this. Then the one who was facing me motioned to the one who had its back to me and pointed at me. I remember saying to myself, "I think they can see me." just then, the one who had there back to me shot up out of their chair and I buried my head in my pillow and ducked under the covers. I could feel this person beside me, checking to see if I was awake, or something like that. Once that feeling went away, I looked at the table again and they were gone.

The next event was a few years later when a coworker at a local restaurant I was working at asked me if I wanted to go with him to one of the public pools here and swim later that night. I didn't want to break into city property so I declined. The next day he didn't show up for work, which was odd. Later in the day, the manager, not sure why he had to, had to go down and identify him at the morgue. Later that night I was laying in bed and got a strong feeling of being watched and turned to see him kind of like on his hands and knees on the floor looking at me. Needless to say I was quite startled and punched this whatever in the face and buried my head into my pillow. After a little bit, I looked and he was gone. I guess he had been drinking and did break into one of the public pools and was found floating in the pool. When I saw him, I could see him as clear as day, just a little see through, not 100% solid.

Another even took place probably about 15 years ago. I was living in a small town in southwest Michigan in an apartment complex called sawmill creek apartments. Back in the 1800s there actually was a sawmill on the property that the apartments were now on. I had just recently switched from second shift to first and was up early making my lunch. All of a sudden I get this thought that said, "What are you doing up so early?" I actually answered saying that I was up making my lunch but before I could finish I realized that it wasn't my thought. I turned around and in the hallway there was a little girl, probably no older than 6 or 7 standing there. She was dressed in a late Victorian black dress. She startled the crap out if me and I jumped. When I turned to look at her again, she was gone. A few years after this I was sitting in a local libraries history room looking through old newspapers trying to research the history of a particular building downtown when I came across an article about the death of the daughter of the sawmill owner. Unfortunately they didn't have a picture, except for the mill itself, but that confirmed, at least for me, that, for whatever reason, she decided to stay around.

I haven't seen anything after that event, which I'm kind of bummed about because I find it fascinating, a bit scary but fascinating. Like I said, I know what I've seen. So, I am trying to reconcile that with what science says and it is quite difficult. I need more information/evidence to work with here. But, in the meantime I'm on the fence about the subject.

@Captain747ex
@Surfpirate
@Bendog
@Mitch07102

Gentleman, to say that people are crazy, or that their experiences didn't happen, is not for another to judge. What is fair to say is that, just because we don't know why we saw something, or why something happened, doesn't mean it's to conclude something extraordinary, like ghosts... or god.

It's fine to say you don't know, and to keep an open mind is a good thing, but not knowing and extrapolate to ghosts is the same claim people make in religious arguments.

"How can this be? It MUST be god."

Neuroscience tells us that some normal, healthy people, can be more prone to hallucinations than others. Our minds can fill in blanks, based on minimal outlines or imagery, especially in even slightly altered states, like fatigue, sleepiness, stress, emotional trauma or fear.

Perhaps this is a better way of putting this. I have had these experiences too, as well as some others here who have not concluded these experiences are due to ghost activity or the paranormal.

What is the difference, in that case, between those who believe they saw or felt ghosts, and those who think there's another explanation?

@Athena It sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too. I have stated that I have experienced things that I can't explain that for want of a better word had a ghostly appearance and that's where I drew the line. I didn't make some quantum leap to imply that there must be life after death, a heaven or a hell or a god for that matter, just that I have seen some things that I can't explain and that no one else has been able to explain to me either. You yourself seem to had similar experiences and didn't feel the need to attach divine intervention to these experiences and yet a surprising number of people do take offense at anyone suggesting that they have experienced something outside of the ordinary, something paranormal, unexplained or just highly unusual. It's as though they feel the need to defend their world view and refute any evidence that conflicts with that safe little reality they have built for themselves where everything is safe and normal and has a ready explanation. This is the part that I find irksome. I have always maintained that there is no valid concrete evidence for the existence of a god or gods and therefore I don't believe in them although I realize that many people do but I have also always maintained that if an actual god or gods presented themselves to me and proved their divine power then I would be willing to change my opinion on the topic. I'm not saying that I would fall down on my knees and worship them, I don't think a truly divine being would even want that of me but I would have to rethink a lot of assumptions I have about reality, something I call being open minded.

@Surfpirate
Of course I do! Cake is delicious!!

I may have misunderstood what you said about it. My apologies.

@Athena Understood, it is easy to become distracted when you are trying to focus on eating delicious cake.

@Surfpirate
Now you'll know how to distract me in the future.

@Athena Come to the Dark Side we have home made Baklava and Gelati.

@Surfpirate

Please tell me what form of transportation I need to get there, and I'm on it.

@Athena Boat would be the easiest because we live on an island but there is 24/7 ferry service to the island, the little one is a bit more of a thrill ride as it only takes a maximum of 3 small vehicles but the big ferry takes 15 cars and is only $6 round trip.

@Captain747ex
Well, I can certainly see why you might believe in ghosts having had experiences like that. I, however, am a skeptic who doesn't have a belief in ghosts or the supernatural and have a different point of view. I assume that you wouldn't place a post like this on agnostic.com unless you were open to different points of view. So, if you will allow me, I'll present my PoV.
First of all, let's take a look at the supernatural elements in each of these stories that apparently lead you to believe that these people were ghosts.

1st story: Something related to vision, " translucent, powdery white."
2nd story: Something related to vision, " just a little see through, not 100% solid."
3rd story: Something related to a thought in your head that you didn't think was your thought, "I realized that it wasn't my thought." Apparently, you believe this thought was implanted in your head by some sort of telepathy from the ghost little girl.

Now, I'm going to put these alleged supernatural events aside for now. You may not agree, but I don't see anything else in these stories might require a supernatural explanation. The fact that someone might leave the room when you turn away might surprise you but it doesn't require a supernatural explanation. People can leave a room quite quickly when they want to. The fact that a little girl might have been wearing a Victorian dress, or more accurately a dress that looked to you like a Victorian dress does not require a supernatural explanation, though it may be a bit unusual. I have seen many women wearing a Victorian dress for whatever reason, a party, a tour guide, a historical reenactment, and little girls play dress-up all the time.

Now, what is a ghost? It is an immaterial spirit being that once was a live material human, right? And it requires some sort of "soul" that somehow survives death. This raises the question of where did this immortal "soul" comes from, which is why almost everyone who believes in ghosts is religious. But you say you are agnostic, so let's put the religious, God-creating issues aside. That just leaves us with an immaterial spirit being of an unknown immaterial origin.

Now, let's take a look at your first statement which is rather telling regarding your assumptions, "Well, when I'm looking at something that shouldn't be there, what else could it be?" First of all, it wasn't something, it was someone. Secondly, I don't really know what you mean by "shouldn't" be there, as that implies some sort of judgment. What I really think you are saying is, "Well, when I'm looking at someone that I am not expecting to be there, what else could it be?" Think about that. When I see someone I am not expecting to be there, I simply refer to that person as someone I am not expecting to be there. You assume it is a ghost. Suppose they weren't expecting you to be there? Would that make you a ghost? I don't think so.
(Yes, I know there are some alleged supernatural elements in the stories, and I am getting to that.)

1st story: You heard these people talking. Guess, what? This proves they were human. Ghosts are immaterial beings which means they can't talk. Talking requires vocal chords, lungs, throat, mouth, tongue, lips, etc. These are all material things that an immaterial being does not have by definition. Yes, I know ghosts talk in the movies, but those are simply Hollywood movies made to entertain. If the actors didn't talk these movies would be terribly boring. Do not confuse the fantasies of Hollywood movies with reality.
You felt someone next to you. So what? I can often feel the presence of people standing or sitting next to me and I think nothing of it. We pick up all kinds of sensory data, much of it subconscious, from people near us. There is a change in air pressure when someone approaches us. There are subtle auditory clues, such as the sound of their breathing, the slight rustling of their clothes, and the sound of their feet on the floor. There are subtle olfactory clues such as human odors, etc. Nothing unnatural about that, at all.

2nd story: You " punched this whatever in the face." How in the heck can you punch a ghost in the face? You can't. They are immaterial beings and your material hand would go right through them. If you could hit or touch this person, it proves they were human.

3rd story: Now here it is simply the thought that you had that you didn't think was your thought. Now, why would you think that a thought in your head wasn't your thought? Perhaps, because it felt a little odd and so you didn't identify with it. OK, but that is it, just an odd thought in your head. Now, why might have an odd thought in your head? Probably there are all kinds of reasons why that might happen, but that leads me to my next point.

There is a common theme to all of these stories: sleep. In the first story, you had been sleeping. In the second story you were in bed and probably half-sleep. In the third story, you had made a shift change in your job that must have affected your sleeping cycle. I have done shift work and split-shift work and know how irregular sleeping patterns can play with your mind. You often walk around in a bit of a daze until you adjust. And there is another thing in the third story related to sleep, namely, your odd thought, " What are you doing up so early?" This is exactly the kind of thought that might emerge from your subconscious when you are sleep deprived. I find that much easier to believe than a little girl "ghost" communicating to you via telepathy...and she wasn't even translucent.

You remind me of a girlfriend I once had who also saw ghosts but only saw them upon first awakening in the morning. Needless to say, I did not find her very convincing either. Some people simply don't awaken as quickly as others and are still partially dreaming for a while. Sleep deprivation can also lead your mind to essentially dream while awake for a few seconds. Where do you think that the term "daydreaming" originally came from?

BTW, people with extreme forms of insomnia, for example, hallucinate or "dream" all the time, though you seem to be fine since you haven't had another such experience in years. Such people usually either report seeing ghosts or aliens. So, let me ask you another question, why did you assume ghosts and not aliens? I'll tell you why. You don't believe in aliens from another world. You believe in ghosts from an afterworld.

@Surfpirate
Um.. only 6 bucks for a round trip?

That's a bargain.

First of all, I thought you had to sell your soul to get to the dark side..

And second...

I thought it was only a one way trip!

@Athena Well sure but if we told people the truth then nobody would come. lol

@Surfpirate
No arguing with that logic.

@Heraclitus I get what you're saying. I asked myself these same questions. Like when I saw the four people sitting at the table. I questioned myself if I was actually seeing what I was seeing. I was having a hard time falling asleep. I'm a night owl, so sometimes it's hard for me to get to sleep.
That night was one of those nights. Also, I could not hear what they were saying but I could see their mouths moving as if they were having a conversation. I watched these entities for a good 5 or 6 seconds until the one that was facing me motioned to the one which had its back to me and pointed at me. The one with its back to me shot up out of the chair and turned towards me and started walking towards me. These people were not at my grandparents house ever until that event, I had never seen them before either.

The guy I punched in the face was dead. I know that for a fact. How could a dead guy be in my room? I could see him although, like I said he was not 100% solid, and punched his face because it startled me. Note that I never said that I contacted anything when I punched him. He had died sometime during the night because he was found dead floating face down in a public swimming pool. Yes, I was in bed, but was not asleep. I still had the lamp by my bed on. It was the sense of being watched that made me turn and look. He was a co-worker and that was it. Sure, he was a nice guy, but we didn't have a strong bond like some co-workers do.

As for the little girl, she was not a member of my family. There were only two other people in the apartment at the time and she was not one of the two that I would have expected to see. Also, the other two would have known why I was up so early. They knew I had switched from second shift to first shift. I knew I had switched from second shift to first shift. I was the one who made that switch. Also, no one who lived in my apartment at that time owned a Victorian dress. And like I said, it was more of a thought than the spoken word and I knew it wasn't my thought.

I found each one of these events to be very interesting as they contradicted everything I knew to be true. I could explain these things away if I had been sleeping or was sleep deprived, but I wasn't. Like I said before with the people sitting at the table, I questioned myself as to what I was seeing. I kept looking, trying to make sense of it but I couldn't. None of these events made any sense. I have read many people's stories of what they experienced and could explain several of their stories away. I do appreciate your point of view and I did apply your views to each event but, for me, they do not offer a good enough explanation for what happened. Also, I never really bought into the whole soul thing, however, what is our consciousness? What is it that makes us who we are? Someone once said, "That if you remove the probable, what ever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." The 4 people at the table should not have been there, the co-worker who had died should not have been there, and the little girl in the Victorian dress should not have been there. And yet they all were. I cannot explain why they were there. I honestly have no clue as to what happens to our consciencness after we die. Does that mean we have a soul, I don't know? Does that mean that there is an existence after we die, I don't know? That is why I am on the fence on this subject. I know what science says about ghosts, but I also know what I have seen. I have an open mind and am willing to entertain other view points.

Why I saw ghosts is beyond me and, no, I have not seen any aliens. However, don't assume that just because I haven't seen an alien that I don't believe that they do not exist. I'm fairly confident that there are other intelligent lifeforms out there in the universe. There might even be intelligent lifeforms in our galaxy, however, the amount of space between us and them is enormous. Even if they are out there, I believe that there is an extremely small chance of us meeting them. We don't know everything about the universe but I feel it is damn near impossible for intelligent life to not exist elsewhere in this universe. The physics is there to be able to travel extremely long distances without breaking the speed of light. Space and time is a fabric that can be compressed and stretched to move the great distances while, technically, not going faster than light. It's all relative. Unfortunately, the technology for this is not here.

@Captain747ex
You say that you know what you saw, but do you really? You certainly wouldn't be the first person to dream while they were awake, or to hallucinate, or to have their imagination play tricks on them. Far from it. The fact that one guy had just died lends even more credence to the possibility, if not probability, that you could have had a wild dream about the event. My wife once woke up from a disturbing dream and for a while thought it was real. That has happened to a lot of people. No reason to assume ghosts. The fact that you see people that you have not seen before and do not see again, even assuming they were real people and not your imagination is also no reason to assume ghosts. Also, you did not answer the question as to why you assumed they were ghosts and not aliens, even though you admit aliens could exist. Do you really think it makes more sense to assume ghosts than aliens? Why is that? And why not just assume they were angels? Is it because being an atheist you don't believe God created angels? Yet you are an atheist that believes in immortal immaterial souls (ghosts) that couldn't have created themselves and would logically have to be created by a greater immortal immaterial soul that most people would call God? And what makes you think that ghosts are translucent semi-solid beings? Sure they are in the movies, but forget Hollywood movies. Ghosts are supposed to be immaterial souls that are incapable of being seen by material eyes...except in the movies, dreams, and hallucinations. Logically, it would actually make more sense to assume they are aliens. At least it is possible, albeit remotely, that aliens could have translucent semi-solid bodies

@Captain747ex
You say that you know what you saw, but do you really? You certainly wouldn't be the first person to dream while they were awake, or to hallucinate, or to have their imagination play tricks on them. Far from it. The fact that one guy had just died lends even more credence to the possibility, if not probability, that you could have had a wild dream about the event. My wife once woke up from a disturbing dream and for a while thought it was real. That has happened to a lot of people. No reason to assume ghosts. The fact that you see people that you have not seen before and do not see again, even assuming they were real people and not your imagination is also no reason to assume ghosts. Also, you did not answer the question as to why you assumed they were ghosts and not aliens, even though you admit aliens could exist. Do you really think it makes more sense to assume ghosts than aliens? Why is that? And why not just assume they were angels? Is it because being an atheist you don't believe God created angels? Yet you are an atheist that believes in immortal immaterial souls (ghosts) that couldn't have created themselves and would logically have to be created by a greater immortal immaterial soul that most people would call God? And what makes you think that ghosts are translucent semi-solid beings? Sure they are in the movies, but forget Hollywood movies. Ghosts are supposed to be immaterial souls that are incapable of being seen by material eyes...except in the movies, dreams, and hallucinations. Logically, it would actually make more sense to assume they are aliens. At least it is possible, albeit remotely, that aliens could have translucent semi-solid bodies

@Captain747ex
You say that you know what you saw, but do you really? You certainly wouldn't be the first person to dream while they were awake, or to hallucinate, or to have their imagination play tricks on them. Far from it. The fact that one guy had just died lends even more credence to the possibility, if not probability, that you could have had a wild dream about the event. My wife once woke up from a disturbing dream and for a while thought it was real. That has happened to a lot of people. No reason to assume ghosts. The fact that you see people that you have not seen before and do not see again, even assuming they were real people and not your imagination is also no reason to assume ghosts. Also, you did not answer the question as to why you assumed they were ghosts and not aliens, even though you admit aliens could exist. Do you really think it makes more sense to assume ghosts than aliens? Why is that? And why not just assume they were angels? Is it because being an atheist you don't believe God created angels? Yet you are an atheist that believes in immortal immaterial souls (ghosts) that couldn't have created themselves and would logically have to be created by a greater immortal immaterial soul that most people would call God? And what makes you think that ghosts are translucent semi-solid beings? Sure they are in the movies, but forget Hollywood movies. Ghosts are supposed to be immaterial souls that are incapable of being seen by material eyes...except in the movies, dreams, and hallucinations. Logically, it would actually make more sense to assume they are aliens. At least it is possible, albeit remotely, that aliens could have translucent semi-solid bodies

@Captain747ex
You say that you know what you saw, but do you really? You certainly wouldn't be the first person to dream while they were awake, or to hallucinate, or to have their imagination play tricks on them. Far from it. The fact that one guy had just died lends even more credence to the possibility, if not probability, that you could have had a wild dream about the event. My wife once woke up from a disturbing dream and for a while thought it was real. That has happened to a lot of people. No reason to assume ghosts. The fact that you see people that you have not seen before and do not see again, even assuming they were real people and not your imagination is also no reason to assume ghosts. Also, you did not answer the question as to why you assumed they were ghosts and not aliens, even though you admit aliens could exist. Do you really think it makes more sense to assume ghosts than aliens? Why is that? And why not just assume they were angels? Is it because being an atheist you don't believe God created angels? Yet you are an atheist that believes in immortal immaterial souls (ghosts) that couldn't have created themselves and would logically have to be created by a greater immortal immaterial soul that most people would call God? And what makes you think that ghosts are translucent semi-solid beings? Sure they are in the movies, but forget Hollywood movies. Ghosts are supposed to be immaterial souls that are incapable of being seen by material eyes...except in the movies, dreams, and hallucinations. Logically, it would actually make more sense to assume they are aliens. At least it is possible, albeit remotely, that aliens could have translucent semi-solid bodies

@Heraclitus I believe I know myself well enough to distinguish between a vivid dream and vivid daydreaming. I think I would now when I am awake and when I am sleeping. I also called them ghosts for lack of a better term. In the event with the co-worker, I did not know him well enough to have a dream about him. I've known several people closer to me than this guy and I have not had them show up in my bedroom staring at me.

As for angels, I don't think they exist. I also stated that I am on the fence about the things I've seen because they do go against what science says about the matter. I will admit that I have not experienced hallucinations before, but why would I only experience these events and not more of others like them? Then these events would make sense but I haven't had anymore events. Had they been aliens, wouldn't they be 100% solid? Also, who's to say that they evolved under the exact same conditions that we have? Would it then not be too unrealistic to expect aliens to look different from us? Also, how are we so sure that ghosts are immaterial souls? That just opens up a plethora of philosophy regarding what exactly a soul is. What is this supposed soul? Is it our mind, our conscience, or some other form of energy? I don't know. Like I said before, I look forward to finding this answer out when I cease to exist. I know what I saw because it was unlike anything I have ever seen before. I cannot explain it, but I have taken your input and have applied them to these events and they still do not adequately explain to me what happened.

Another thing, I don't believe God created anything. It would make more sense that we created god. Also, if matter=energy and matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed, how does this factor into a God being this so called creator? What does happen to our energy when we cease to exist? What happens to the chemical reactions when we cease to exist? What happens to our vibration when we cease to exist? I'm not entirely sure but I tend to lean towards our energy is conserved, our chemical reactions stop, and our vibration breaks down as the body breaks down. Now, this doesn't give a whole lot of room for ghosts, maybe the conservation of energy, but I think that's a long shot. I don't know what I saw, but I do know what I've seen.

I've had an event that could have been a dream or something that actually happened. Since it happened at such a young age, I still really don't know if I dreamt it or not. This is why I can say that I was awake for all of these events and not dreaming or hallucinating. That is my benchmark for measuring these events.

@Captain747ex
Well, if you call them ghosts for lack of a better term and open yourself up to all sorts of definitions that does change things. Then it becomes more of a question of does a "whatever" exists. I have no idea if a "whatever" exists.
However:
The point about the guy who dies was not about how well you knew him, but about a death triggering an emotional dream or hallucination, especially in someone so young. As to why you don't keep having hallucinations, all that means is that cause of the hallucinations is no longer present. Others on this website had listed multiple reasons why hallucinations may occur such as fungal hallucinations, toxic hallucinations caused by carbon monoxide, formaldehyde and pesticides, etc. Certainly, not everyone who has hallucinations keeps having them their whole lives. As to what happens to our energy when we die, why not ask what happens to the energy and chemical reactions of ANY life form when it dies, such as an ant or a plant? Do they all have some sort of energy left over to become an ant "ghost" or a plant "ghost"? As to whether or not aliens would be 100% solid, I don't see why they would have to be. I put no limitations on what aliens might look like or even if they would exist in the rather narrow visible spectrum of light wavelength that humans can see. But if your "ghosts" can exist as translucent energy fields than why can't aliens exist as translucent energy fields? Or is it that you simply prefer to believe in the possibility of an afterlife?
That said, you have more questions than answers and I respect that.

Isn't it just great when people jump through all sorts of hoops to explain away ghosts in a scientific manner? I know what I have been through and I don't dwell on it but just for one moment state what you have actually experienced and the scientific community goes bat shit crazy. I don't care what they think but I do hope that someone will come up with an answer to explain some of the things I have experienced and others have too.

@Healthydoc70

I love George Carlin. Thank you!

indeed nor try to claim science can't explain everything like this should be a revelation

Metaphysics

We detect the energy of people that simply cannot be created or destroyed. Our history, our imaginations, our filters, our family stories filter that detection. And as it was with Cassandra - the prophet who was always accurate and never believed - we who attention to this ability to detect are jeered, sneered and smirked at. It's just predictable human response to denigrate an ability in others that they simply choose not to develop.

I would never deny that someone had an experience. I've experienced bizarre "ghost like occurrences" as well. I do understand there are reasonable explanations for them, even if I don't know what they are.

@JustLynnie This is the thing that bothers me about some of my friends who are also scientifically trained, they shut down their minds to anything new that hasn't been peer reviewed a thousandfold. I don't know what I experienced and there were other experiences that were much weirder but what I do know is that I experienced them so if even only on a personal level they were real to me. If we close our minds to what we do not know and cannot explain then we close ourselves off from new discoveries of what it is to be human.

@JustLynnie I think you are right but until then we will have to deal with the science zealots who insist that we didn't see what we saw, hear what we heard or felt what we felt because they can't get their head around it. No Biggy, zero fucks given.

@fanburger neither can experts. How hard is it to design experiments to discredit this once and for all? Not everyone who reports this phenomenon is mentally unstable. If there's nothing to it and it is all psychological, it's also something I'm interested in knowing as well. Why would the brain release chemicals that make you hallucinate once or twice in what is an otherwise healthy brain inside a healthy person who doesn't take drugs, drinks, or smokes.

@Bendog for one, how were we even able to detect gravitational waves decades after the theory was proposed and why are people still trying to find dark matter if what we have are mathematical models and we don't have the right tools to detect something smaller than a quark? It won't be easy but you can start by making demographic surveys and learn how many people in the general population have also seen anomalies. If you have a large portion, then we gotta see where the city is located... Are there chemical plants, treatment plants... Any dangerous chemicals, radiation, harmful agents in the surrounding area. If not, then how often do these people see their therapists, etc... I don't really see why people would lie about what they see, there's a lot more to loose by admitting this than there is to gain.

@Fanburger you got me! maybe they have Tide in the other dimension. We need those laundry secrets, that's another reason to study this! Jk there's a lot of ideas going around about why ghosts seem to wear the last set of clothes they wore which aren't popular ideas and even though they sound great on paper, it's hard to try to prove it... It's even worse because the curiosity in biologists and physicists I know is there but if you mention your interest in this outside of your friend's circle in the academic world per se, you'll be ripped apart and you will be discredited. Good luck finding a job. As an anomaly... If it is a phenomenon that could happen outside of the chemical reaction in the body and brain, it could potentially open our understanding to other problems in science.

@Fanburger I know, that's why I suggested that this should be looked at further. I really don't think anyone is going to pour money into this kind of research anytime soon but for now I'm just willing to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I was having dinner with friends, not that long ago, and this topic came up (not raised by me). I was shocked to hear the number of people who believed ghosts exist (5 out of 8 of us).

It was hard to keep my facial expressions under control. Instead, I asked questions. I got a lot of "I don't know... I just know they must exist because how do you explain...?"

I can't explain how my socks go missing in the wash either, but I know they're not in heaven.

Mmmmm, vodka...also like bourbons...<3

Lifting my glass as I type...Cheers...<3

You'd think that, but the term atheist refers to the lack of belief in a god. It doesn't refer to ghosts.

Atheists can believe in ghosts or anything not related to gods.
You'll see that here. There are those who identify as atheists who also believe ghosts exist. I'm not judging them for it - I just don't understand how the ghost belief plays out. People are asserting we can have reasons to believe them, but no one has answered the multiple questions in my post.

I'm curious. I want to know why. So far, no one has provided any good reason. "Energy is not created or destroyed" tells me nothing about ghosts...

I'm still waiting.

Don't knock Casper!

A-theists do not believe in god(s). Ghosts are NOT god(s), so A-theist can believe in ghosts or anything else they want to believe in, just NOT god(s).

@Bendog Please read the post I am commenting too. FYI I copy and paste.
"How on earth can an atheist believe in ghosts? Even Casper!"

@jlynn37

All true.

So, what is a ghost?
Where does it come from?
Who gets to be one?
Why are they here?

If one doesn't know the answers to these questions, why believe they exist?

There are lots of things one can't explain, that fall under the umbrella of "phenomena."
To then claim the possibility of ghosts, also allows the possibility of anything.

Maybe it's Jesus, who comes back in different forms? Or maybe aliens are projecting these images from the sky.

How do we determine what is possible if not with clear evidence, as eye witness testimony has been proven to be the least reliable source of truth.

@Athena Well stated my dear.

@jlynn37
@Gareth
@Bendog
Have you all noticed the other woman (the scientist) has disappeared from this thread? So have all our comments that tagged her.

@Bendog
I feel for her. I think she was outnumbered in the area of logic and reason. And I also think there may be some people here who suffer from depression and anxiety...

Sometimes questioning oneself about past events, or what one believes can send a person into a downward spiral.

I hope that wasn't the case here. It's hard not to notice the emotional turmoil in some people.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a suck that way.

@Bendog

I like to be challenged as well, but I don't suffer from depression. I also don't take things personally so I feel pretty resilient. It's not comfortable for me to see people in pain.

And the fact that I have no idea why she deleted herself from this thread, is not lost on me!

It's just speculation on my part.

@Bendog
I wish you well, my friend. You are brave, with or without your new truck.
And, if you meant a war vet., thank you for all you've done for your/our country/ies..

The suffering of those who have served is another thing that makes my heart bleed.

@Bendog
That is so commendable, yet not surprising..

It takes a certain kind of person.

@Athena She has blocked. She will no longer interact with me in material form but I am sure her restless spirit will somehow be able to manifest itself in some way from the unknowable realm beyond the block. She is in a better place now. May she post in peace.

Opinions are never facts.

Well you are certainly in good company, the closed minded scientist that thinks that makes him more certain of his reality. I hope you never experience anything that shakes you limited world view to its core, it would probably kill you.

@Surfpirate unlikely

@weeman All of the really good shit was unlikely at one point in time, science is fluid and cannot remain stuck in the past if it is to advance. Einstein was a bit of a mathematics idiot apparently and yet what a pleasant surprise - nuclear weapons and space time theory.

@Surfpirate zero replicable evidence all stories key word there are hearsay or personal accounts with no proof at all other than hearsay infra sound and lets not forget psychics who charge for something that usually ties into people desires to talk to a loved one show me unequivocal proof fair enough and einstein was a genius and had mastered differential and integral calculus before he was 15 hardly an idiot its an urban legend thanks for playing though

@weeman I guess we'll never know, let me know if you wake up dead from seeing something that conflicts with your accepted view of reality. That was rhetorical, I don't really care if you see something or don't, whether it kills you or wakes you up because it's none of my damn business.

I appreciate the video, but that's no different to me than the assertion that a God exists, using the god of the gaps argument, or the argument from ignorance.

@Athena My posting of the video was in response to part of your question as to "How does that work?" Most people think of "Ghost's" as being specific disembodied people. There is the science of what our eyes are able to perceive in the visible spectrum of light. There are many things we are not able to see like radio waves that we can't see but can hear if we have a radio. Maybe ghosts are real or maybe what some people see are other entities that make themselves visible to some.. as the video speculates.

This video asks the question "could it be?" a lot, but never really attempts to answer it. This is not so much a theory as it is a set of hypotheses, which would need some form of testing to formulate any kind of real theory. Interesting ideas, but basically just a lot of speculation and nothing much else.

@veRONicaMeower

I understand. Thank you for clarifying.

But, it's still just that - speculation.

I asked numerous questions to those who believe about how it works. Who are these ghosts.. where do the people who aren't ghosts go. etc.

I find people want to believe, but no one has really thought it through. Logic can't take them further so they say "I just believe it's possible."

Okay, lots of things are possible and uncertainty exists regarding many things, but why conclude "therefore... ghosts."

@Athena I've read a book called "return from tomorrow" by George G Ritchie. He was in the military and while sick and dying he "Astral Projected" and saw many disembodied spirits that were unaware that they were dead. This book may shed some insight into your questions. I'm sure most people here believe whatever feels or seems right to them based on speculation. It's all speculation unless you've been there in the space between life and death. There are also books by Swedenborg who describes his astral projections and what he saw while being "Out there" and describes the layers of the astral dimensions. This may answer where ghosts come from and where they hang out..