I don't think belief is a choice at all. Belief is the end point of the mind becoming convinced that a proposition is true or likely to be true. What do you think about belief? Do you think it can be a choice?
I think in some situations and more often for some people then others, belief can be a choice. My brain is wired to usually require convincing evidence to believe something. I guess there are a variety of contexts and definitions of belief.
When it comes to feelings things get really fuzzy. Love frequently seems to involve believing in someone or believing things about them. It seems to me that sometimes feeling love or being loving can be a choice.
I think beliefs are culturally influenced and that they are not a choice. There seems to be pockets of religion. Like in parts of India they are Hindu, other parts Buddhist, and still others Muslim and a mixture of each within the groups. Maybe after a person is influenced by a girl friend, nice family, workplace, and are introduced to a new idea of belief they could make a choice to believe a different religion. But I still think they were influenced to make that choice.
Yes, a person chooses to believe in whatever they want to. Its called free will of the mind. Some choose to believe in aliens based on whatever reasoning they have for that & others do not. Just like religion.. its a choice. But some are forced into believing a certain way in some cultures otherwise there are dire consequences.
We just went through this. It is not. At all. But most people here will disagree with you without good reason.
We can choose to ignore data that comes our way or to fail to seek that important data out. Some people make those choices and indirectly their beliefs are protected. But once that information is chosen to be viewed it will affect the mind, and some of the times it can (and should) sway beliefs—irrespective of the emotional desires of the individual. When that happens, it is clear that the person is not choosing their belief regarding something. The only way for the belief to be changed back is for the data to be shown to be very different from how it appears so as to shift the weight in favor of the belief. If the data never changes, though, the belief is set.
Of course, believing anything is a choice. The person weights facts, opinions, and emotional commitments in deciding that something has a sufficient basis to accept it as a premise on which to act. If it is not a choice, the alternative is that it is something that is imposed on us. If that were the case, imposed on us by whom? For what purpose?
I think that beliefs are a subconscious acceptance of a theory, a story, news, a statement of someone, the trustworthiness of another person, or whatever there is to believe in. Beliefs are not wrong as it is a system of humans to process data. A belief has also the tendency to reject or ignore information that falsify the basic information the belief is based on. In this quality belief is no choice. It's hammered in the subconscious mind. But ……, as soon as some doubts appear, inevitable information that conflicts with the belief, like information that is passed on to children during their education in school (that's the reason why religious parents prefer a school that supports their religion), than it becomes a choice to investigate further, resulting in a decision to choose to keep the religious belief or reject it. Accepting the inevitable of the belief or the freedom of mind and thinking.
I don't think so. I can't make myself believe something I just don't believe. The most choice I think there is would be to choose to avoid challenging your beliefs.
Which is also not a choice...
everything you do is choice good or bad unless you're forced physically.
Belief might not, of itself, be a choice - but deliberately discarding the evidence that challenges it is.
If you believe in Noah's Flood, and someone points out to you the absurdity of the tale (and there are many, many absurdities) then you choose to either genuinely consider those points or to discard them out of hand. That's where the actual choice lies.
If you choose to consider the points, then I suspect your belief in Noah's Flood will be shaken - but that's not you 'choosing to not believe', it's you 'choosing to think rationally' and the loss of belief is the consequence.
I agree with some previous comments: when I stopped believing in the Christian faith, I went on wanting desperately to go on believing it, but I couldn't. It was, for me at least, not a matter of choice. Not believing isn't generally a choice, either. I really do not want to believe that Trump is POTUS, but I still believe it. If anyone can convince me that it isn't true, I will be very grateful.
I can relate to wanting to believe but couldn't. Your comment is profound. You said so much, and I am confident you more to say on this matter.
I don't think belief itself is a choice, but I do think (insofar as choice exists at all) that ignorance is — and that's directly related to belief. We're in an age of information unlike anything we've known in recorded human history, yet so many people reject facts and established science in favor of the stories that make them feel warm and fuzzy, to never be challenged or to step even slightly outside their comfort zone. When you hear a young-earth creationist trot out the tired trope, "If we evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?" you can be sure this is someone who actively avoids learning, who won't listen to the answer when it's presented. It's willful ignorance, and that leads to reinforcement of belief.
Why do you think you have choice in ignorance?
@JeffMurray The free will debate aside, if someone seeks out knowledge the information is available — and something like "evolving from monkeys" is explained so easily and has countless articles, videos, etc., providing the basics of what evolution is and isn't. Insofar as anyone can make a choice about anything, I think that degree of ignorance remains a choice. But this is predicated on the assumption that someone values truth in the first place.
@resserts I don't really know how to set the free will debate aside when someone's claim assumes a person is at fault for how much they desire or value something. Do you think you can control what you desire?
@JeffMurray No, if you're talking about determinism, I don't believe in real choice in any capacity; we don't author our own values and desires. If that's what you meant from the start, I was confused when you brought up belief specifically and thought you were working from a different angle where the nature of the motivation wasn't important. I was trying to work from a perspective of compatibilism akin to what Daniel Dennett espouses (e.g., he would say that a decision has been made regardless of what the reason is, and that it's a real decision unlike someone with a mental illness who cannot fully understand or effectively deliberate). I was trying to treat your question seriously and as honestly as possible within that line of reasoning, even though I'm not fully on board with Dennett's model of compatibilism (but I do appreciate his point to some degree). Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett debated culpability at length and Harris felt that everyone, because we aren't in control of what we value, of whether we have empathy, etc., are not truly to be blamed for the harm we do (though he believes that there's utility in society holding people to account for such actions), while Dennett considered there to be real agency in action, and that it was immaterial that the origination of the impulse was outside the individual's control, because the individual has the ability to think and understand in a way that someone who's mentally ill would not. Like I said, I'm not entirely sold on Dennett's view and I tend to side more with Harris on this. In many ways, I consider compatibilism to be a trick, a "have your cake and eat it too" game in favor of free will.
@resserts Yeah, that's what I was talking about. The OP on was about free will, yet you claimed people had agency in their ignorance; I was just curious why. I know the words I choose in daily life could probably confuse people regarding my stance on free will, so I try to be extra cautious when I'm taking about it specifically.
@reasserts you described most of my family with that comment.
You choose to let facts on board, and reasoning, which lead to your beliefs. My beliefs can change and with regard to food for example, I am constantly changing/adapting my beliefs about which foods are good bad or really bad depending on the latest facts and reasoning available.
When I was younger I believed for a short time in Jesus at age 12 I think when they forced us to sit in scripture classes...but then I thought about it, asked many questions, was told to have faith, and my belief became that I do not believe in Jesus due to lack of evidence in support of that belief. Who wrote the bible I said? How do we know God helped write the bible? etc etc No one had a good answer. He might as well have been Santa Claus.
I do not think it is a choice. When I first realized Christianity was BS I wanted to continue believing anyway. I had every motive to. I just couldn't.
@witchymom In what way? She's saying she couldn't choose what she wanted meaning there was no choice in the matter for her.
@witchymom then I also choose not to grow wings and fly? Perhaps you don't know the definition of could.
@witchymom Choose to believe in Leprechauns. I'll wait.
@witchymom No, neither of those things are true. I don't wake up every morning and decide I'm going to still not believe in a Christian conception of god that I believe to be self-contradictory. Truthfully, that thought almost never crosses my mind unless I'm reading something like this. Likewise, people like my brother's best friend's mother who believes she literally talks to Jesus and has verbal conversations with him is not choosing to believe.
Just for fun, choose to believe kittens are disgusting and ugly for a day and then go to the pet store and play with some and see how you feel inside. When you still want to squeeze the shit out of them because they are unbearably adorable, you can come back and apologize for being wrong.
I don't think @witchymom understands the difference between believing and professing to believe. 2 different things.
@witchymom "Fake it til you make it" has an important first part there, and I'm not sure the second actually follows anyway since I faked it for 18 years
Of course it is a choice. A hard one for some but still a choice.