You have a point. Not all the problems are from swingers, but would be better classified as "troublesome pervs" as you put it. I admit, I was just beign lazy about fully explaining, as it takes a lot longer, and I didn't want to introduce too much information at one time, because in the U.S., people are usually ignorant of fine distinctions. They have years of misinformation. I took the easy road and separated everyone into just two groups, the nudsits and naturists who enjoy platonic nude recreation, and the rest who seek out nudist places because they have some sort of sexual agenda, whether they are swingers, pedophiles, voyeurs, exhibitionists or some sort of sexual predator. However, pedophiles and sexual predators generally don't usually go to nudist places, as they almost always seek places of seclusion metnioning them upfront would immediately get up everyone's guard and spark fer, and the conversations would not be about thier attitudes towards nudity, but about things that are no more of a concern in nudist places than in clothed places. That is my excuse/justification for taking the "easy way out" in my categorizations.

I really wish the U.S. was much better educated and did not have so much misinformation. I wanted to see what attitudes about nudity were, and I seem to accomplished that. I am surprised that I am still getting responses almost everyday.

Here in the UK, naturism does seem to attract paedophiles. I've been a member of a club that had one member kicked out after it was revealed that he was on the sex offender's register for something to do with photos of his young granddaughter. What was most alarming was that a number of other club members knew about this and kept quiet. The same club had one member arrested after it transpired that he'd been repeatedly raping both of his step-children. He's probably still in prison (I hope so.)

There have been a few high profile exclusions from British Naturism, including their Yorkshire area representative a few years back. He was caught viewing child pornography in work (I think he was more of a sexual thrill seeking risk taker and taboo breaker than anything) and a raid on his house revealed an extensive collection of over 100,000 images, some of which fell into the worst classification of child sexual abuse.

The obvious appeal of naturism/nudism to someone with a sexual interest in children is a massive elephant in the room. Without training to be a Physical Education teacher (and going through all kinds of vetting) where else are you likely to get an opportunity to observe under 18's without clothes? I find it frustrating that naturism chooses to focus on a 'threat' supposedly posed to grown adults by swingers, while largely ignoring a very real threat to children.

Perhaps things are different in the US. But given that (admittedly a good few years ago) I stumbled across a 'secret' group on the Internet, detailing US nudist resorts for incestuous families, I doubt it's really that much different. The fact that many believe otherwise is down to the facade that naturism/nudism manages to maintain.

Though you're far from alone in 'othering' swingers. I used to do it myself. It's easy to dump everyone with any kind of sexual agenda into the same pile of pervs, and naturism/nudism routinely uses this tack to distance 'genuine' naturists from any impropriety. The reality is that most swingers are very respectful, and discreet to the point of paranoia just as so many naturists are. They wouldn't dare to do a lot of stuff that the pervs get up to. They would be too concerned about being exposed as practitioners of their lifestyle.

Most nudists/naturists think the ideal job is one where you can work naked. Many telecommute from home (work from home over the internet) in order to accomplish that.

I used tojus twer modest clothing, but I don't like having tan lines Tan lines just dont' llook natural to me, and if nude, they draw attention to the non-tanned areas as if highlighting them.

I agree in that society's viewsof nudity needs to be changed to be more positive.

The first time I went to a nude beach, Within an hour, the nudity all around me was no big deal. Even though it took several trips before I went nude myself, I strted to see nudity as "normal".

If nudity is normalized. then it is no big deal.

Yeah, there will be obese people, but at the nude beach, i hear a lot less derogatory comments than I her in public places where everyone is clothed. Beauty value judgements are mostly learned. They can be unlearned (or better yet not learned in the first place). Too many people equate beauty and beign sexually attractive as they saem thing, but they are not. Everyone at some time in their life has seen someone who was physiclly beautiful to whom they were not attracted to sexually. The serialization of the human body, or rather seeing every human body in terms of sexual attractiveness and making a beauty judgement on that basis has not made for a better world or society.

Naked is natural. Clothign is unnatural. Why do we mostly choose to live so out of touch with nature?

I am thinking (or a least hoping) that Trump will push too hard and too far and there will be a societal push back in the other direction.

I agree that there probably shoudl be designated places for the practice, but on the other hand, I think people shoudl also be allowed to be nude outside of designated places if they so choose. If they choose to rake on the risks of such actions that is their choice. However, I think few would choose to do so, just as few persons choose to park a brand new car in South Central Los Angeles (a crime ridden area). People so mostly use common sense to reduce their risks.

Anyway, changes in public nudity laws would have to be gradual, to alloow for cultural adaptation. No responsible legislators would go from a total ban on nudity to allowing nudity everywhere over night. That would likely be chaotic.

It would be more like in Europe, where they would designate sections of public parks where nude sunbathing is legal, and sections of beaches stc...

A lot of the point of nudism is to get over feeling ashamed of one's body. I think it is criminal tht we are taught to feel embarrassment and shame over how we look, and are taught that the ideal beauty is what we see in photos that are all touched up and altered to a point that it is impossible to reach in real life.

Etiquette in nudist culture says you carry a twoel with you to sit on for hygienic purposes.

As to self respect, I think to feel shame over your own body, is showing a lack of selg respect. I think respect in general is to accept people as they are, as opoosed to what clothes they are wearing. I've been to the nude beaches and nudist clubs and without clothing people treat each other equitably, which is treating each oher with more respect than I have seen in clothed society. Without clothing to denote status everyone is seen as being more equal.

For persons who have nto experienced social nudity, but have only been naked either for sex or bathing, a first time social nudity experience may cause a man to inadvertantly get hard, because the body has been conditioned to think "naked equals sex". I myself spent the first few minutes at a nude beach laying on my stomach until the problem went away. Then I got used to being naked, and never had such an issue again.

So yeah, it hapens. Generally nudist etiquette says that you just ignore it and do nothign to draw attention to it and let it go away on its own.

personally I prefer nudist clubs to nude beachees. Much different atmosphere.

You can always take care of yourself beforehand.

It might happen at first, but like most things, you become numb to it. After a while it's just another set of tits. Honestly, you can see almost everything at most beaches today anyway with some bikinis. Do you keep a raging boner at the beach all day when and if you go?

Well, yes. Being able to choose is the whole point.

Nice to know that Colorado is pregressive i some places. I knew Boulder ws progressive, but had the impression that the rest of th state was mired in conservatism.

I do like to hear about the bible thumpers being beaten back, and human rights trumping religious dogmas.

I've done the Portland (OR) World Naked Bike Ride a few times, which attracts over 10,000 riders each year. Some peopel may use soem kind of set cover, but I've never seen a special seat used.