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Non-Agnostic question: Military

I am in the process of joining the military (AF). I would love to hear people's opinions about their experiences (I prefer personal experiences, not "I heard from so-and-so" ). If you could go back, would you do it all over again? Would you do something different? If so, what? If you have a daughter, would you be okay with her joining?

JenWinter 5 Jan 25
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When I was in basic training I received, along with the rest of the platoon, a barrage of immunizations. The following day we were scheduled to run the obstacle course. I woke up in the morning feeling very ill. I went to the clinic and was diagnosed with nothing. I ran the obstacle course and continued running back to the clinic. Within 15 minutes I was in an ambulance to the hospital where I was put in an ice bath. I heard at one point that my fever was in excess of 106. 2 years later I slipped on the patio and severely injured myself. I went to the base ER and was diagnosed with a pulled muscle. 3 months later I went to a civilian physician who diagnosed that I had a broken clavicle. The base hospital repaired my clavicle with some type of plastic replacement. When my convalescent leave ended I was given an extended convalescent leave 'for as long as I wanted'. 2 months later I was given an opportunity to to get an honorable discharge. I signed it. I didn't need any more of the type of medical treatment that I had received.

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Army, Infantry, Heavy Anti-Tank Weaponry Crewman. '85-'89, peacetime. Seriously considered reenlisting when we moved to rescue Kuwait.

I can't join again, not now. Too old but, I almost reenlisted while in. I had a blast.

Best advice: let go. Don't intentionally screw up but realize that the rules are for your safety and no more. There were several men in my Basic training that had a blast but kept having to do pushups, etc, for messing with the Drill Sergeants. One was Sgt Bird, so they arranged with men from his barracks to sneak into his office and leave a birds nest on his desk, that sort of thing.

Ways in which NOT to mess up. One of my fellow soldiers was having his hair cut in the Barracks and someone bumped the hand of the guy doing his hair and did irreparable damage... he went to the barber and asked how to fix it. The only fix was the same buzz you get in Basic training. He got a buzz. This is a legal, even standard, military hair cut... he got busted for it. The real problem was that he radically changed his look without permission.

I would let my daughter join. However, I'd make sure she had her head on her shoulders and understood that she'd be surrounded by a bunch of young men (18+) who were full of testosterone and were in a hypermale environment. Always buy your own drinks (unless it's with a steady boyfriend... even then, share who buys, keep the power level even). Why? Partly to make sure you get a safe drink but partly to avoid the power dynamic of 'I bought this for you so you owe me...'

Relax, have fun, see the world... seriously. You can do all kinds of damage to yourself by obsessing on the changes. Case in point a friend in Germany ('85-'87, Baumholder) woke up every day and said "I hate Germany" and hated the time he was there... save for one significant case. When he had a beer, he stopped saying he hated Germany and was the nicest, friendliest, happiest guy you met. He was angry and unhappy the other times. The lesson I took from this is that I can make myself miserable or I can make myself as happy as I can.

Finally, explore. I am something of an introvert. In Germany, I didn't travel much. One of my fellow barracks mates was out the door within seconds of being released on a Friday, sprinting to the train station and off visiting a new place. Looking back, I really envy him.

Is the military for everyone? Nope. It can, however, be a very rewarding job and career. If you are up for the physical strain, and mental strain. It can be a blast... some of my best stories are from the military (I won't bore you with them, they are long).

Oh! In my day, you were allowed one "wish" with each enlistment. I enlisted for 4 years and said I wanted to be stationed in Germany. My recruiter did NOT ask me to "make a wish" but he apparently wrote into my contract "Germany"... and to Germany I went! This is subject to the Secretary of Defenses discretion but they MUST try and fulfill it (contractual obligation). One of my Captains specified he was NOT to be stationed North of the Mason-Dixon line. He trained North of there, but was never (to my knowledge) stationed North of said line.

Um, and have them train you for something (if you can). I came out a grunt, trained to kill. Not much use for that in the civilian world. However, I was offered Navy Nuke at one point (and kicking myself still) which would've had me exit as a Nuclear Engineer and serve as an officer. Try to get a job that translates to a civilian job... preferably something expensive to train in. 🙂

Oh! That said, I know of a young man who got Navy Nuke. He failed to show up for a physical (he was not informed of said physical) and lost his slot in the program so became a normal Navy scrub. Ie: his contract said he was to be Navy Nuke but HE failed to fulfill his obligations so the Navy owned him and could do what they pleased with him... so, be careful to KNOW exactly what you have to do at what time and do NOT miss any appointments.

One more, again, from my time back in the day, I wanted the education benefits. I had to put in $2700 to get $27,000 out, so, I divided $2700 up by 12 months and started making payments. I crowed to someone that I was only months away from finishing paying for it when it was pointed out that you got increasingly higher matches the LATER you paid. So, I got the MOST money on the LAST month of enlistment even if I only put in $1. I readjusted, divided what was left by how many months I had left to my enlistment and, everything went fine (maxed out my benefits).

While we are on finance, everything you really need is paid for. See about having, oh, half your paycheck put into an IRA or something. Even bonds. If you don't see it, you are more likely to save it and come out with a nice nest egg... I wish I'd known and done that when I was in.

Ok... sorry for the long post. I love to coach new recruits as there are some interesting things that people will NOT know about (like the 'wish'😉. Let me know if you want boring military stories... I get to brag in one and have fun in another... another is... well, about another soldier who decided to be upset and was, and how a local (German) tried to abuse the system.

One day we had a Battalian 'day off.' In the military this really meant a day of playing sports but NOT doing normal duty. Not what you and I would think of as a day off.

There were sit up competitions, push up competitions, pull up competitions (name an up and there was a competition in it). Volleyball games, basketball games... the only rule was you had to do one of the above.

I was, unfortunately, born without the sports gene. While I have tried to play many of these games, I got to where none of them really interested me. I could and would work very hard... just didn't care for sports.

I was watching Volleyball and my Platoon Sergeant showed up at my Shoulder. "you playing Volleyball?" (You could hear the capital.)

"No" I said "just watching."

"You need to be playing a sport."

At about that point, a good friend Dan comes running up. He was born with the sports gene and loved Soccer (not something I had ANY interest in). He asked if I were playing anything and did I want to play "Push Ball"?

I noted that it wasn't an "up" competition and asked "what is push ball?"

He said it was hard to explain, but they needed more players would I join? I agreed (to get away from Sergeant Gamble).

So, we ran to what looked suspiciously like a soccer field (or football to be honest... yes, pun intended).

The game is played with a 5' tall canvas ball filled with air. It's big enough that you can't toss it as it catches too much air and falls. Light enough that you'd think you could. Thus, you have to push it down the field. It's just like Football, or Soccer: get the ball to an end zone, score a point. The most points win. 12-24 man teams with 10 men required to be on the field at a time. Two formal rules:

  1. No holding
  2. No punching

Now, we were in Delta company. This is the TOW heavy anti-tank weaponry crewman company. We were always smaller than the 'real' infantry companies and we were always smaller (physically) than the 'real infantry companies. What I mean is that at 6' 200lbs I was always one of the tallest (always ONE guy taller than me) and heaviest guys in the company... we could argue about strongest (I did a march with approximately 300 lbs once...so, I am willing to argue that point). They key I am trying to make here is that we had to play Push Ball against the other companies in the Battalion and they had more men, and MUCH bigger men to draw from. I felt like I was a Track meet guy at an NFL game trying to be a lineman!

Bravo company showed up for the first game. We had 12 guys, two of which refused to play and just sat on the side line. They had a full compliment of 24 men!

We won.

They weren't happy about this but they were good sports.

No rest, no break, here comes Alpha company... another 24 man team.

We were winning 2-1 with just a few minutes left to the game... but, we were exhausted.

While playing the game we figured out there were two major rolls. You could push the ball, which took some ability to run as you could get it going pretty quick and you wanted to outrun the other team. Or you could stop the ball from moving by playing "poison" by messing with the other teams players, trying to keep t hem from stopping your team from pushing the ball along.

During the course of play, I'd been kicked once... but this was 'cause a guy came flying across the press of bodies on the ball and ended up swinging around, his feet flying out and my face was in the wrong place. No big deal.

At the end of the game with Alpha, we were, again, winning 2-1 and I was playing "poison." I received a singular life experience: someone picked me up and body slammed me.

I'd never had this done to me before (despite wrestling in middle school, etc). I stood up growling. Yes, I mean that I was growling like a mad dog.

My first thought? "This has GOT to look stupid."

My next thoughts? Well, it was literally like I had the proverbial angel on one shoulder and devil on the other. I recall one voice saying "No holding, no punching" from the 'nice' voice. The other voice? "We could get rid of a LOT of aggression here!"

The rest I remember like a cartoon. I walked up behind men much bigger than me, grabbed them, from behind, by the ribs and literally jerked my hands up and back and they were gone. I repeated this until no one, NO ONE, was on my side of the ball and had enough brains to wonder why the ball wasn't moving, I'd just taken the whole team out... we could score a point... then, the adrenaline dropped and I realized that I was in serious danger of passing out... I wandered over to the side of the ball close to the side lines (THEIR side lines) and leaned against the ball, braced for attack from the enemy (the field, being the opposite side from the side lines) and just sort of leaned there and tried to hold on and not pass out AND be ready for what I knew was coming.... and yes, it came.

I was hit. Hard enough that I heard something snap, and was bulled backwards. I thought they'd hit me from in front, the direction I was braced and ready for a hit from, and managed to bowl me over AND break something!

My first though? Roll off the field so someone else could take my place. THEN I wised up and stopped. I knew something was wrong with my left leg but didn't know why. I began taking off my show to investigate. "Is it broken?" a voice asked. "Fuck! I don't know!" I replied. Got my shoe and sock off... nothing obvious.

A truck showed up, several guys moved to pick me up "I can do it" I said as I was picked up like a rag doll and moved, gently, into the truck to which I could only say "oh, well, ok."

Off to the hospital, and a cast for 6 weeks... which I did NOT appreciate.

Now, again, to ME the memory is much like a Sunday cartoon. I only give it credence because Dan said that he was on the other side of the ball, resting, but trying to push, sort of, and their guy, who was playing 'poison' as I was said "oh shit!"

Dan looked up, the guy backed up to get a run, ran at and jumped over the ball. Dan told me that I had my back to this guy, no way I could've seen him coming, but I just reached around and made the most beautiful throw he'd seen in his life!

Everyone I spoke to corroborated that I'd taken out all 10 infantrymen...

But, the fun part of the story?

Remember I said I was always the second biggest guy? In this company we had a guy, I'll call him Private F (let's give him some privacy) took over for me. He was 6'4" (or more) but he was a real marshmallow. Pudgy seems sort of kind (not to fat shame but this IS the infantry, I was pushing weight at 6' 200 lbs... this guy... well, I looked skinny next to him).

He got taken out the same way I did. He screamed as he could not take the pain. Again, not meaning to shame him, just meaning to compare reactions (and it's infantry, you want to be tough).

Everyone figured I'd walk back to the Barracks as I was intending to walk off the field... I wasn't ALLOWED to put weight on my leg. He HAD to be carried off so they figured he'd be in a cast.

Private F was sent home, walking, from the hospital, I was sent back, in a jeep, with crutches and a temporary half cast... I still went out and partied that night. (Why waste a good cast on a Friday night?)

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Reserve, guard, or active duty?

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Don't get married, don't have children, don't have a long term relationship, don't get blackout drunk, wear sunscreen, travel when you're on leave you can see your family when you get out lol, have a blast! I already know you won't listen to any of that because no one ever does!!! I give you this advice because I did the opposite and it fucking sucked! If you were my kid..... I might break your knees so you couldn't go. It's the best worst decision you will ever make and it will change you forever.....well.... maybe you are going airforce hahahaha if you are going into the MPs look up super fly boy Tranchina and tell him Cpl Westfall called him short hahahaha

@JenWinter now keep it that way!

When I joined, I bought an Army Ring (still have it, somewhere) and wore it on the ring finger of my left hand. I was unattached when I joined and intended to NOT be attached while in. I didn't want to have to worry about commitments while in. I am not certain sure that was the right thing to do. My thoughts were that in combat, if I were to have to get into combat (I was in during peacetime) I might need to just dive in and fight and... if part of my brain were worried about survival... I might hesitate when I needed to NOT hesitate to succeed... the logic is twisted but, I do believe that in some situations being willing to let go might well lead to success, or conversely NOT being able to let go might lead to failure.

In short: I won't disagree with you as I did exactly what you are talking about. However, I knew guys who did quite well with married life in the military (and several with girlfriends)... not least of which was one of the most solid marriages I've ever seen (one of the most dedicated guys I've ever seen) and that was a marriage of convenience: she was a German who wanted American citizenship so married for that. Theirs was an 'open' marriage and I am very certain that he never did (and suspect she never did either)... so, CAN it work? Can a relationship in the military work? Sure. Is it tough? I bet it is one of the more difficult things to do in life... you have to be dedicated to each other, and you have to be ready to support each other... but, if you can't, odds on you shouldn't marry, no?

@Gnarloc it's a bit different for us chicks when it comes to being married while serving....now I admit it's been a long minute since I've been in and a hope it's changed.....but I don't think it has. If your female don't get married don't have kids and don't drink too much. It's a thinking woman's game

Is this a statement of career harm for doing so? I don't know. When I was in, getting pregnant was a quick way of getting a discharge... I HOPE that has changed. I see no reason why anyone in the military can't have kids AND server (not that it will be easy, just that it should be possible at the least).

@Gnarloc during my time getting pregnant was not a way to get out but, getting birth control was near impossible. Once pregnant ibwas kicked out of the barracks, had to buy maternity uniforms, chow hall card was taken away, had to pay rent and utilities ect ect. No worries though! Got a 237$ pay increase. Even 20 years ago this was insane. Day care wiped me out, having to be in the field away from the kid wiped me out. Therr us a lot more from that time but im not going ti get inti it here. The military is not family friendly and it wasn't female friendly when I was in. I hope this has changed but I honestly don't think it has. I would love to have someone prove me wrong on that one. You're right through... it SHOULD be possible to have a family while in..... but why do it? Have fun, learn cool stuff and see awesome things.

@Pooska Hard to "like" your last post... but, we agree that it -should- be the case... and, with you, I do NOT know if the current military situation IS the case.

Sorry to hear you suffered. Wish it were not so. Wish I could help (or could've helped, whichever is most appropriate).

@Gnarloc thank you 🙂 there was a long time I was really angry but I found wine and how to relax!

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Hi JenWinter,I was called up to do National service in the New Zealand army from 1964 to 1967 and I did not like it at all.It allows bullies to intimidate you and you have nor rights as an individual.but having said that ,there are a lot of people who enjoy the military life.If my daughter wanted to join I would let her know of my experiences and remind her of the possibility of being killed or seriously wounded if sent to a place of conflict,but I would not stop her joining.

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Don’t have the answer... I’m thinking it’s a “necessary evil”. As a defensive force, no doubt a necessity... why are we so “defensive”, is it because we’ve been so aggressive? (Rhetorical)
Theory, conspiracy, or conspiracy theory, some believe many of our wars are/were just that.
My personal experience (1964) was or became the “the unqualified leading the unwilling to do the unnecessary”.
I’d hate the idea of my daughter or son being in harms way, perhaps as defensive force.

Tomas Level 7 Jan 25, 2018
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I’m currently two years into active duty Air Force and while I don't regret joining, I did wish I hadn't romanticized the military before going in. The people are still people and the culture is backwards. Just know that you will be making a commitment to a government that still dosent understand us [this site]. I’m a photojournalist working out of Goodfellow Air Force Base, so feel free to ask me any questions.

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Things are changing ant are not the same as they were even 10 years ago. Watchdog groups as Freedom From Religion Foundation constantly challenges the military for their unconstitutional proselytizing. One thing you need to know is that the military is not a democratic organization. One does as one is told (within reason).

I spent 4 years in the military (Army Security Agency) and it was a carnival from one day to the present?! Would I do it over; you bet. It was the most transformative thing I have ever done.

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I did 20 years in US Navy. My kid sister did 23 years in the USAF. My son did 4 years In USAF. He was Recruit Wing Commander during training. Is the best decision you can make. He specialized on Network security and also did a security tour in Afghanistan and when he left became a contractor and now works for Cesar's in Vegas. So he is not just a geek, a dangerous geek. USAF will give you more responsibility right out of training than any other branch. If you can get training for a job requiring Security Clearance you are set when you get out because it will roll over and companies will fight for you if you are already cleared. Anything computer base you will be set. My field in the navy was communications Radioman/Information Systems Tech. I will do it again Yes, YES! In my 20 years I served in Rota Spain, Crete, Greece and Vaihingen Germany as well as 4 years in Puerto Rico... 12 minutes from my neighborhood. You can see the world, experience, and good job. You stay for 20 is great too when my sister got out from USAF was a contractor too. I was contractor too when I got out. Sis now works for the federal government still using her TS clearance. So believe me, Is up to you but it is always a good decision. You can get education and continue forward. I haven't had medical insurance since I retired... I need something I go to the VA hospital. Good Luck and wish you the very best. Thank You for asking. My ex wife gets half of my military pension because by law we were married 10 years while I was serving... word to the wise on that one. That is our joke... I am waiting for her to die and she need to keep me alive to continue drawing that pension. Good Luck, I got nothing but good things to say about Air Force.

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Would do just what I did. Joined the Navy saw the world. Boot camp they kept wanting to send me to A school turned it down wanted to be a sailor. Got top secret clearance Stood lots of watch painted miles of bulkhead (did pms= pre scheduled maintenance ) on equipment. Ran winches as an highline operator. Become a boatswain's mate. Went to fire training school in Japan (no safety features). Crossed the equator (shellback initiation) Was in places probably had no business being did it anyway. Got to do swim call in the Marianas trench. Got to visit many wonderful countries. Seen a few bad things happen that is just part of maturing. Is a point in my life that I would not change for anything.

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Rank has its privileges. Please look up the qualifications behind being the top ranking NCO. Study those programs and get a degree. Stay out if SAC or you'll be into inspection all the time. 20 years gets you half your pay for the rest of your life. Don't get out after 20. Stay in for 40 years. You will be able to retire with full pay and free medical insurance for the rest if your life.

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Honestly, I fear for women in the military. That said, there is no reason that you will experience anything negative. I have 2 daughters and neither has opted to join. I have an ROTC son who goes this summer after graduation and a son at West Point. The boys both love it. The women cadets at West Point carry themselves so well. I find them impressive. I wish you luck and let me know if you need a care package of cookies 🙂 My sons seem to enjoy food from home. 😀

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The rampant sexual abuse of women in the military would probably make this a no-brainer. NOPE. I would NOT be okay with my daughter joining.

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If one of my daughters chose to join the military I would support her 100%. It's not for everyone but can be a very valuable experience for those who choose it.

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