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Does the idea of heaven that you have heard discribed appeal to you?

Marine 8 Sep 18
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12 comments

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i would not want to live anywhere where i could not control the menu and the music.

it sounds inconvenient for folks who have had more than one successful love relationship. how will everyone get along?

feh. i am glad there is no heaven.

g

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Sounds pretty boring to me.

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What I heard was that we are in heaven right now, all the time. If we can’t see heaven it is because we are blinded by negative, untrue, judgmental thoughts or by mind-chatter, possibly brought on by watching television.

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Standard-issue fundamentalist heaven is actually pretty vaguely described. It is basically:

  1. Every tear shall be wiped from our eyes ... no more unhappiness or worries of any kind.
  2. Our sin nature is finally eradicated ... we'll no longer have the drive to sin and will naturally be pleasing to god
  3. We'll be reunited with our loved ones who have preceded us in death
  4. We'll at some point (details depend on which sub-sub-sub sect you are from) get a new, perfectly healthy body that's immune to disease
  5. We'll be so enamored of god that we'll just worship and adore him and praise him forever and ever.

The rest is all inferred details ... you can't really say much more than this from what scripture actually says about heaven, and even this involves some assuming and embellishing.

Add to this, that most religion's afterlife concept for the righteous is conveniently hyper-idealized like this -- basically just a glorified version of what we superficially wish life on earth were actually like -- and it all starts to sound pretty suspicious. If the afterlife is designed and controlled by someone else, who is to say that it's not SSDD (Same Shit, Different Dimension)? Or worse than this life? Who is to say that even if it's better than this life, it's so much better that we would want to experience it without end?

What this really sounds like when you think about it, is that everyone is stripped of any individual desires or will, and turned into a robot whose only job is to stoke god's ego continually. We won't be able to question or resist or disobey if we tried. There's no other way for "sin" to be "eradicated" but to surgically excise freedom of choice, or the desire for same.

There are other things that would have to be done to alter us to be "fit" for heaven. Fundamental things. Hedonic tone would have to be removed or greatly modified, or even wall to wall orgasmic pleasure at worshipping god would become tedious after a few years.

In short, we wouldn't be recognizably human anymore.

When you think about it, the Abrahamic religions especially, and many others, teach us self-loathing for simply being human. Being human is something to be ashamed of, to deny, to see as fundamentally tainted with the stain of sin. And heaven is the place that this will finally be expunged from us.

And what will we be then? How will that differ from being drugged and made to behave like a trained dog? Is that okay because we'll enjoy it by design? I don't think so.

Gee, this seems like life in Trump tower from trump's point of view. I cann't wait.

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Not in the least, an eternity pandering to the selfish wants of an ego driven sociopath

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Not really. If heaven existed, I'd want it to be like Star Trek TNG!

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Hell no, who wants to sit around all day on clouds and play a harp?

To be fair, the Bible and standard Christian dogma don't claim that is what we'd do. That comes from various artists and authors's concepts from centuries ago.

On the other hand what it actually claims might be worse: no one can "sin" and everyone worships god day and night forever and ever. In the most groveling ways you can imagine. God's objective is that "every knee shall bow" to him, even if only to accept the punishment of eternal perdition.

@mordant Sadistic SOB

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I cannot imagine anything that I would want to experience for ever and ever.

We are in fact creatures of time, not eternity. Hedonic tone guarantees that eventually, concerning virtually every possible "new" experience, we'd already have been there, done that, got the tee shirt ... and would see no further point.

If science eventually bestows biological immortality on us (totally conquers disease and aging; one can only die by misadventure or suicide), then I think people will eventually end their own lives -- not in despair, but in satiety. I agree with you that most people wouldn't want to have new experiences indefinitely.

I could see living for a few hundred years, depending on circumstances, and maybe I'm underestimating the endless ways in which one could keep re-engaging with life. But I do not think I'd want to live forever either. If I'm wrong, that's fine, and it's always nice to have options. But at this point my interest in life is not infinite.

@mordant
I'm thinking 200 to 250/years of reasonable healthy life would be long enough and I agree on the rest of the things you said.

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I’ve never gotten past the pearly gates and streets paved with gold. You can tell who came up with that shit, the same greedy fuckers that said "god told us you need to give us 10% of all your shit"

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No....sounds boring as hell!

Actually, hell might be more interesting than heaven....

@snytiger6 My point exactly!

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Hell no

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