You are making those books a reference which has either been widely denounced by the scientific community or has been criticised for certain parts especially. I will not totally discard these books, however, as it gives a different and dissenting view. But, creating opinion on a subject based on just these books without reading the peer review of scientific books like the bell curve or criticism or denounce ment by the scientific community of the opinion books based on vague scientific evidence like troublesome inheritance is not what we call a scientific approach. However, you are entitled to your opinion.

This book has been discredited.

@Tendix I will add a further point or three, you have a racial/cultural identity, the concept of race is spurious, in my opinion there is no such thing, but you have an ethnic and cultural background. I do not. My mother was taken from her family and adopted out to British parents who certainly did all they knew how for her. To the best of our knowledge her birth mother was of British decent and all we know of her father are small town rumours that he was "dark". That aside, my heritage is a wide mix of European and although I have Aboriginal 2nd and 3rd cousins we don't share bloodlines. No matter how you look at it, I am at least 4th generation Australian, but Australia has no cultural identity as such. The country pretty much denies its aboriginal heritage and everyone else is identified as European or whatever. I do not fit into either and am not accepted by either. We have never had an Aboriginal Prime Minister, but then you have never had a female President.
Strange world we live in.

@Rugglesby I encourage you to read "The Bell Curve" and"Troublesome Inheritance" and "Dead Aid". There are many books that support my claim. Your personal experience is valid but sadly irrelevant to actual researched facts that look at Black people as a race. It seems rather sensitive for most. But again facts don't lie.

@Tendix - The Bell Curve is a political book, not a scientific one, and it's over 20 years old. Let's move on.

I read that, and went to a speech he gave at a nearby university. Have a signed copy.

Please read "The Bell Curve". Research the poorest continent the world. Progression of African Americans. In order to change we must focus on the problem. Why are African American children still scoring poorly as compared to other minorities or even African immigrants. The is several research on my claim. Sadly it's people like you encourage black people use terms like "white privilege". I'm simply trying to bring awareness so are to educate many and bring change. Whether is cultural or not there needs to be change. We are all equal but sadly the world we live in if from this reality. Simply telling people about pigmentation is an illusion of truth and toxic. When there millions of black people who won't let their daughters attend school and marry old men. When American kids won't go to school because of gangs and so called racism. Science has proven that black people's IQ has decreased and will only get worse. I encourage you to read "The troublesome Inheritance". I'm all about researched facts not personal opinions or liberal unlogical claims

@Tendix I don't think you understood what I was saying first of all. Second of all I'm not showing anybody or encouraging anybody to say white privilege because this has nothing to do with pigmentation. Even you said African immigrants score better than African Americans. Third of all you can start by educating yourself your spelling is atrocious and your not getting the point. if you're all logical and want to better the African American community it needs to start with you. it's sad that we can't just all except that we are humans. Every time they ask me what race I am I put human. Also you might want to stop blaming me and start focusing on the problem and this wasn't based on just my opinion it's a fact that you're a human being and if you were born and raised in America it's a fact you're an American. You want change you make change. So stop blaming others. You might want to start there.

The Bell Curve was one of the most scientifically bad books of all time. Totally false reasoning and biased use of statistics. You can't prove "race" determines intelligence when there is no such thing as race.

I'll try to answer my best ability to answer. Sadly Obama had very little to change the mindset of African Americans. He was a great President but unemployment, crime and illiteracy is still high. Yes most are in denial. There is almost no accountability. In Africa even after colonialism there is still severe poverty and corruption. It's clear that black people have a history of unprogressive mindset.

@Tendix, this is the part I have trouble understanding.. It is outside of my experience. If I look around me today in America I see a whole lot of my-color America is very very different than me. I am able to accept that the division isn't by color but by degrees of stupid. You and I have more in common because of our knowledge than because of our color.
I think I am trying to say "Then why not change how you see yourself? Include yourself in the group of the rest of us here and don't use color to measure." I read that back to myself and realize I am being a pompous ass, but still...

@Dick_Martin I totally get your reasoning. Hopefully you can understand mine. I migrated to the US from Zimbabwe where religion is practiced by 75% of the population. I too was religious largely because of poverty. I see a large difference in economic development in 3rd world countries compared to 1st world. Surely you see it too. Even in America the African Americans have the lowest education scores, highest crime rates. The most unprogressive response to deal with these issues is Black Lives Matter. Black people are always dependent on other races to fix their problems. There is no accountability at all. I care because if i have kids in the US I'll raise them different. I encourage you to read The Bell Curve and Troublesome Inheritance.

@Tendix, I had a professor who made the case that what you describe is in fact true but that the cause is not skin color but rather a matter of latitude.. Anyone living in colder climates has to adjust or die. One can not sleep outdoors or in unprotected huts when water is freezing. Grains, nuts, and berries are not available when there is 6 inches of snow on everything. He could, and did, go on and on about latitude and weather being the cause of most every thing. And by the way, I reject as untrue that black people are dependent on other races..

@Tendix I'm really sad that you have bought into the "poor Africa" mindset. If you do some research you'll soon realise the reasons Africa is now in the state it's in, and surely you realise why black children in America do less-well? Neither state of affairs has anything to do with race, and everything to do with politicial manipulation.

That's true and it's my race. Sadly Africa is the poorest continent in the world. Before colonialism and after. There is definitely something about our mind set. We have plenty of rich natural resources but sadly we are still poor. Every country has rich history. What is the point if most of the continent has no basics needs of survival. I speak from experience I'm from Zimbabwe. African Americans have access to so many opportunities but sadly they have the highest unemployment and crime. Also highest college drop outs and illiteracy rates.

@Tendix You need to re-educate yourself because when you say Poorest Continent you are using monetary power as your measuring stick... Africa has desert, pyramids, jungle, gold, silver, diamonds, oil, Fauna in abundance, rivers, mountains and valleys. It has history still to be discovered. Africa is the continent that was never told that was pretty only that was meant to be exploited. Do you know why the 13 colonies were able to separate so easy from England? Because there was nothing in the 13 colonies other than taxes and land. If England would had seen gold, silver, anything to be exploited in the 13 colonies... USA would had never happened when it happened. That is why England did not tried as hard as it did tried in other colonies of their empire. Those 13 colonies where not worth a damn. Men don't fight for land (except the nazis). Men fight for what may be in the land. Africa was unlucky in history because it has Riches, a lot of Riches. So rich that the biggest export for over a century was slaves. No other continent can claim that.

@GipsyOfNewSpain Sadly I disagree. GDP per capita Africa is the lowest in the world. Africa is beautiful and rich in terms of resources but sadly still very poor. Why do you think China is setting roots in Africa. Clearly we incompetent to extract and use those resources to improve our lives. You speak from a tourists point of view. Have you ever lived in these so called rich countries in Africa. I'm from Zimbabwe. It's beautiful we have so many land marks that are beautiful. When I left my country we had no currency, barely water and electricity and things have not changed. After British colonialism we were rich the government forced land and business away from foreign settlers we have become of the poorest countries in the world. All because of corruption and tribalism. Like most African countries beautiful poor. Our currency was equivalent to the US in the early 90s In 2006 we recieved 300 million in donations but still 75% of the country is poor. Why do you think that is? Africa depends on donations and are incapable of sustaining anything. Not even minting roads. African Americans to are example of unprogressive nature. Please read "The Bell Curve" and "DEAD AID" "Infidel". All these books support my claim. I'm passionate about this topic to bring progressive change. Which country are you from?

@Tendix Do you know the last large enough territory in the Americas (north, central, south america) still left to have a rebellion and gain independence? I will answer at the end. Like I said, you are measuring africa and comparing african countries with the success of countries that gained their independence thousands of years ago. Spain was broke when columbus got lost and bumped into the "new world". When you go to a museum where there is a piece of Egypt history. Do you think the pharaoh gave it to that country. No, it was sacked. Africa still being sacked, when a country wins its independence it left to its own devices, not to succeed but to fail. That is the Fear, that is the Lesson to be learned that you can't do it alone, by yourself. So here you are measuring a continent full of young countries success using the measuring stick they, the opresor provides you. You are citing dollars, per capita, income, infrastructure, etc, while acknowledging that foreign interest is still milking africa. You want to read about tribalism? Read the history of england or spain, or france, or italy. The answer to the top question is Puerto Rico. So the reason is that without the "help" of a "benevolent" country as united states the island will die of hunger and that it habitants are too lazy to succeed. Once you insert that in the psyche of a "people", becomes part of that culture. Do not accept less of your people by those results you site. Do you know Latin America was suppose to be only 4 countries? That's it... Venezuela, Brazil, Gran Colombia, Argentina. The tribalism was forced to create several little countries making them easier to control and exploit until there was nothing left. Simon Bolivar said the words "We Will Never Be Free" for that reason because it is not what he wanted, he wanted the strength in the freedom of 4 large countries like north america, only 3 countries. canada, usa, mexico. Everybody is waiting for those african countries to fold and if there is something left to be sacked still it will be sacked. Reason I brought P.R. into this is because there are many of my people that are afraid of starving to death, afraid of communism, afraid of working for a living, they won't sacrifice for a country but will serve as mercenaries and fight other countries wars, I did it, so I know what I am talking about. If tribalism won't work in keeping the african countries down other measures will be implemented like drugs for example. Nations are not supposed to be built overnight unless the powers that may be want it to happen. Look at israel... why the success? not because they are white but because it was in the interest of those countries in power to allow israel to make it and to expand as it is still trying to do despite being Wrong. You can read and accept what you read as gospel or you can realize that what you see are the growing pains of nations ill conceived. You want africa to succeed... africa will have to reunite into 4, 5 or 6 countries. We are no longer living on a tribal era.

Yes during segregation sadly I'm yet to see the evidence in 2018. South Africa yes during colonialism but not any more. I'm from Zimbabwe so I know the subject quite well. African immigrants actual score higher academically than African Americans. This was actually research. I think the boook bell curve may actually explain in detail. So don't believe the government has restrictions on the success of Blacks.

@Tendix There are plenty of evidence, you are young and probably have not personally experienced it. I am black and reside in the south. I am educated and I am doing well now, but It was very hard because of the color of my skin. You probably go to a restaurant and sees black waiters and waitresses now. Twenty years ago that was not the norm, especially in the south. Blacks were only given dishwasher positions, and bus person positions. All the police shootings that are happening now. Unarmed black males are getting shot by the police, and unarmed whites are not getting killed at the same rate. As a former police officer I can tell you that black are treated very differently than whites when they are stopped by the police. There are still certain areas that black people do not drive through at night alone. The government may pass laws to try and afford more opportunities for minorities, but people will do what they want to do. They will hire who they want to hire, promote who they want to promote. Some hire one black person just for show and refers to them as the window dressing negro in private. I have heard that term said when they thought that no one was listening.There are still a lot of road block for blacks in this country. Now I agree that black people and minorities need to do more for themselves and not rely on others. Some take the easy way out. We have to try harder on our own. The majority of white people are decent and try to help, but we have to help ourselves also.

@noworry28 I agree there is plenty of evidence sadly there us plenty of evidence supporting my claim. Books like "The Bell Curve" has researched facts. Today yes black people are discriminated, so are latinos, Arabs and many minorities. Please research Black on Black crimes compared to police brutality. You'll find that Black on Black is higher. Illiteracy is higher in blacks. Blacks on Food stamps are higher than any other race. I understand your compassion but sadly it's irrelevant to the facts of all Blacks in the USA. There is no accountability and that's why it frustrates me and why I've done research. I'm looking at blacks all across the world. Progression is very low. I'm black and I want to do better for my future kids and many other black kids.

@Tendix Are you on commission to sell "The Bell Curve"? You mention it so many times. Try a more recent book - that one's 20 years old.

Then explain why Africa is still the poorest continent in the world despite having many rich natural resources? Africa depends on foreign assistance with even food. Despite foreign aid, trillions of dollars of donations very little progress. There is a sense of dependence from Africans. Even after colonialism issues like corruption, tribalism often religion are major factors to why Africa has not progressed. I'm from Zimbabwe and the Zim dollar was equivalent to the US dollar in the early 90s. Sadly now we have no currency. Western civilization improved Africa by building schools, teaching basic needs for survival replacing idiotic voodoo customs. After independence most African countries are by far the least progressive in the world. Don't get me started on African Americans. America the land of opportunities. African immigrants actually out score African Americans academically. Even outscoring White Americans according to new research. Yet you will always hear African Americans blaming it all on racism. There is is almost no accountability for their lack of progression. Highest crime rates. In Omaha Nebraska high schools that are dominant black have a 3% pass rate. Free education and countless opportunities but oh yes they blame it all on racism. Progression seems to be lacking in blacks.

@Tendix you need to ask who is owning these natural resources. Africans? But the same Africa has Nigeria, South Africa, Egypt Algeria. If you look at the African history, King of Mali was once the richest person in the world. So, the problem has nothing to do with race. You can say its the belief or the faith system. Regarding the African Americans, you answered yourself African immigrants score better. So, clearly the race is not the issue. I belong to India, which has one of the biggest population of poor people in the world. Any day it will be more than the total American Population. Explain me the reason. We are not blacks. We are the browns, in fact we have yellows too, we have Persian colour too. It's a perfect mix out there in India.
You need to know that till the power does not come to the common man, no country will succeed. African resources should belong to the African people. If it is not, all this inequalities are bound to happen.

@Srijith Sadly I think you've gone off topic. I encourage you to read "The Bell Curve" by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray. Also "Dead Aid" Dambisa Moyo. Compared to India Africa still cannot compare when it comes to poverty we are still at the lowest per gross capita. African American kids from the ghettos also Excell when they are in African schools so it has alot to do with culture and association. I'm looking at black people as a whole all across the world you are only focusing on a few african countries. Before and after colonization we are still developing countries. Even after western colonies bringing civilization we are still unprogressive. African Americans are another example of unprogressive. As a whole not a few examples. If the info is overwhelming for you just Google the poorest continent in the world.

@Tendix you missed the point there... Bringing India into the equation was just to prove that it's not the colour that is the reason for backwardness. Economically, I know India is way ahead and it is one of the fastest growing economy in the world. The whole point was it could be the belief and faith system which is the basic issue and not the colour. Here in India, its a particular system that Hindus followed that systematically made a big percentage of the society very poor and backward socially and financially. You need to know about India and a very particular type of economical system(linked with the religion and something called caste system) followed for millenia, to understand it. Further, the success rate for a community to grow as a whole totally depends on the social conditions than the colour of the human. With regard to the 'the bell curve', it will be encouraged that you read a bit on the peer review and critiques on the findings by Murray and Hernnstein especially on the findings on racial thing. And for Moyo, she gives an alternative way for the recovery of Africa instead of aids. But, then it seems you are too stuck up with a particular notion. You are entitled to your opinion.

I think you are right.

@Tendix Without being disrespectful to you or the posts here and their answers. You need to study africa and their civilizations how were developed... what interrupted that development, Who did it? What they did after? To find the nature of an individual you have to observe the individual in its natural habitat. You can take a look at a black raised in america, how they develop into a good or not human being and then put him/her into the inner city... what is their reaction? I got a personal account of the niece of someone very near to me... she was raised by her mother as white. African father not in the picture after divorce. Once she went into african studies in college and noticed she was not black enough or urban enough... she rebelled against those that can only raised her as what they knew like... just to be white. Now what she do? Waitress on a strip joint. Didn't helped her mother raised her very religious and mother while being a good citizen was not a success in anything she did so the hard times happened while growing up. Black has reclaimed her but not for a good ending. I know there are different stories here about your study, this is one of many. Maybe in another time I tell you how white studied the case of Bob Beamon back in the 60's.

@GipsyOfNewSpain can not agree more