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Free choice is a myth. Life has its own destiny. Apart from man.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.But that the dread of something after death. That undiscovered country from who's bourn no traveller returns.
Puzzlement
Level 5
Feb 19, 2018
0
I'm going to post a poll because I'm curious the percentages of people who do and don't believe in free will. Please go vote.
ChestRockfield
Level 8
Jan 28, 2018
0
We don't have a choice in what happens to us. We do have a choice though in how we respond.
bleurowz
Level 8
Jan 28, 2018
0
Sadly, you don't. I've mentioned several times about a woman at work I was having this discussion with who claimed the same thing: that people can choose how they feel about things. A few weeks later her husband abruptly left her and she was devastated. She even cried at work and was beside herself with grief. If I was a tiny bit more of an asshole, I would have asked why she didn’t just choose to be happy he left her. In speaking to someone else about it they said, “Well, maybe not right away, but after a while…” So I probed, “How long of a while? Is that under their control? If it was they could just reduce that time to nothing and start being happy. If not, I need you to explain again how people are able to choose how they feel.”
@Dida If choice is conditional and you cannot choose the conditions, how is it free? I'd say the same to you. Just because you were in a position where it seemed as if you had free choice didn't mean it's proof of it. That's the reason they call it 'the illusion of free will'.
I agree, we can't choose our emotional state. But we can choose how we deal with it. From my experience, I used to beat myself up when I felt bad. I'd feel like I was a terrible person and that I'd never feel good again. Spent years like that, and it messed up my life. I still feel bad about things -- however, I have learned how to treat myself with kindness, patience, and compassion when that happens, and it's made a world of difference.
I've never heard of a test as to whether we have free choice or not. How do we test it? By what conditions do we tell if the test is successful or not? If A happens, we know the world is preordained -- else the world is not preordained.
You know what. Since I can't tell one way or the other, I've decided that I get to choose - at least to the limit of my sphere of control. (pretty limiting, I know). I see no benefit to acting any other way.
BTW, if it is outside my sphere, I don't worry about it. It's not my fault or concern.
RichCC
Level 8
Jan 28, 2018
0
You've perfectly summed up the illusion part of the illusion of free will.
I think not. Certainly there is a flow to the natural rhythm of things, and to each of our lives - but we steer our ship, and are constantly coming to crossroads and decisions, which can determine so much of how our lives will go.
I quote good 'ole Dr. Phil : "we choose the behavior, we choose the consequences"
(or the beneficial outcome, as the case may be)
evergreen
Level 8
Jan 28, 2018
0
Choices are always determined by desirability. My heritage and life experiences determine my desires. If offered two options, I choose what seems the most desirable to me at that time. I am unable to choose the less desirable. Life would really be crazy if it were any other way. Knowing this to be true of other people, allows me to go through life without anger. The myth of free choice is the most destructive superstition we have.
TommyMeador
Level 7
Jan 28, 2018
1
You are largely unaware of the underpinnings of every decision you make. Even the self-dialogue and contemplation you engage in before the decision are just a part of process and give the illusion of free will. Once again, you are not the master of the machine. You are the machine.
IntellectualRN
Level 6
Jan 28, 2018
2
you are not the master of the machine. You are the machine. --- I really like that. May I steal it ?
@TommyMeador You certainly may, but I'm not going to take credit for it. I think I'm paraphrasing something I heard before, I just can't remember from whom.
@IntellectualRN you are not in the storm, you are the storm.
Cause and effect... once the ball get rolling is not going to be stop until you stop it... but if you remove the ball from ever being rolling... Is sunday morning not my time for philosophy. Value or not value. But for sake of argument and experiment your theory... take this loaded gun... put it to your temple and without asking yourself the question of free choice... press the trigger. Because you don't believe in having freedom of choice. Get back to us after that. Do Not Cheat!!!!
GipsyOfNewSpain
Level 9
Jan 28, 2018
0
I tried your experiment. I had two options - press the trigger or not. Of the two options, pressing the trigger seemed the less desirable. I found myself unable to choose the less desirable of the options so I chose the most desirable, as always. Thus the choice was mine but it wasn't a free choice because I couldn't choose one of them. Free choice is the most destructive superstition we have.
@TommyMeador Oh you could, only thing that stopped you was the consequences of being successful in completing the instructions until that point. But on my test I did not said you got a choice... I said do not ask question and press trigger... you choose to disobey the order and that was exercising your free will to disobey for the sake of survival.
Will = want to = desire The consequences of pressing the trigger made the first option less desirable, so I was forced to chose the second (in disregard of your instructions). If I am unable to chose one of the options, the choice is not free.
@TommyMeador I wasn't even going to bother at that point...
I disagree with the idea that man is somehow different than other biological creatures. We're a product of the same force of evolution and carry the same building blocks. The idea that we're special is hubris.
Billiwip
Level 4
Jan 28, 2018
0
Self awareness is the difference.
Right, but I would argue that other great apes have self awareness. So, do dolphins. I mean it's hard to argue that dogs and cats aren't self aware. But, for certain apes and dolphins.
We don't have a choice in some circumstances, but the choice to steer our fate is wholly ours small correction have larger consequences further down the time line
Corvus
Level 6
Jan 28, 2018
1
We learn as we go. What we learn changes our perspective of what is desirable, which effects later decisions. But we never step out of the chain of cause and effect. We don't have magical powers. A free choice would be an uncaused choice. Uncaused choices would be random. Can you think of a scenario that would be worse than if our choices were random , rather than directed by what we had learned?
There's always a choice. It may not be your choice of choices lol, but there are always options.
Chryflvrantacid
Level 4
Jan 28, 2018
0
We have control over nothing but our own selves
If I had control of myself, I would choose to be happy all the time.
No. Shit happens
Puzzlement, the intent of your two and a half statements is not clear to me, particularly that last half-statement. Neuro-scientists, psychology researchers and philosophers have been saying for some time now that freewill is not as it seems. Even Sam Harris has written about the illusion of freewill in his examination of what consciousness actually is, a question that still is not clearly understood.
[support.google.com]
My problem is with the use of the term "free." There is no absolute freedom. It is always relative to something. But WE DO HAVE CHOICE, ...not for everything in our lives, but certainly for any number of things. The fact that it is never independent of a myriad of influences does not negate that, it just negates the "free" part. So again, since nothing exists that is actually free from all influence, the original statement seems academic and rather pointless to me, at least on any practical level.
MikeInBatonRouge
Level 8
Jan 28, 2018
1
There's about as much difference between 'choice' and 'free choice' as there is between 'Scotsman' and 'True Scotsman'.
If you want to believe that you're a biological robot, then go right ahead.
sirbikesalot06
Level 5
Jan 28, 2018
0
The evidence supports that conclusion.
He had no choice but to come to that conclusion given the information that was presented to him.
@JeffMurray people should be suspicious when modern science comes to similar conslusions of the Puritans. That your will is not your own but God's.
@sirbikesalot06 That is the exact opposite of what most religious people believe. They love to tout the existence of free will because it's necessary for their version of reality to exist. How would they account for the problem of evil without free will?
If I know your character, desires and values well enough to know that you will turn right where you could have turned left, does my knowledge that you will turn right, limit your freedom to turn left?
And you can control your kidneys?
I have read somewhere that the galaxies are drifting apart at approximately 270 miles per second and there seems to be no discernible direction in which they are headed.
With regard to free choice being a myth that could cause you to believe that you are nothing other than a hapless puppet in some cosmic drama with an invisible director.
The process of evolution appears to be a long and slow one, therefore, from the point of view of any one person's lifetime it would appear that there are no outward changes to observe.
I'm not so sure about he phrase "apart from man." if only for the simple reason that we are part of the process of life.
ASTRALMAX
Level 8
Jan 28, 2018
1
If I know your character, desires and values well enough to know that you will turn right where you could have turned left, does my knowledge that you will turn right, limit your freedom to turn left?
Each of us makes a choice in how we behave, and in what we believe.
JustLuAnn
Level 7
Jan 28, 2018
0
When offered two opposing things to believe, I choose the one that is most convincing. I am unable to believe the less convincing one. That is a choice but not a free choice. I am always compelled to believe the most convincing one and that is a good thing.
@TommyMeador Saying it's a choice, but not a free one is like saying someone's a college graduate, just without any degrees. The free part is the essence of choice. If you HAVE to do one thing over the other it's not any kind of choice.
@JustLuAnn if you are free to choose what you believe, can you choose to believe that you can fly, and then prove you actually believe and you're not just saying it by showing us you can?
@JeffMurray I can choose to 'KNOW' I cannot fly. And I can 'PROVE' that. 
It's way too early for me to be trying to figure out this one. You guys are way up there on the IQ scale. I'm just a regular IQ. LOL
@JustLuAnn Not trying to be a dick, but you oddly enough picked two statements to illustrate your point that were both untrue. If it's something you KNOW it would be independent of any choice or illusion of choice. Also, you wouldn't be able to prove you couldn't fly, only that you refuse to prove that you could, if you could. (e.g. Would it be proof that someone couldn't speak French if they said, "I can't speak French" and then didn't speak French?)
@JeffMurray I find it illogical that I cannot KNOW I cannot fly. Because I know I cannot. When I jump. I fall. It's that simple for me.
@JustLuAnn You absolutely can know you can't fly, but that knowledge is not a choice and you technically can't prove it.
@JeffMurray I chose to seek the knowledge.
I choose to answer this post. Was that not my choice? I also choose to say Fuck!! That's all me.
ripcurldane
Level 7
Jan 28, 2018
2
"I'm laughing " ...
No, sadly, it wasn't. Unfortunately, it wasn't my choice to read it or spend my time responding, either.
Based on my understanding of physics, I'm not sure what "Free Will" even means.
Thinking it through, I think this problem is a result of wondering if our consciousness is somehow separate from the rest of the universe. It isn't so the question is actually very different. What is will anyway? Quantum mechanics would say that the universe picks outcomes against essentially uncountable possibilities. Why? I don't think there is a why. That is part of what makes me an atheist.
marmot84
Level 7
Jan 28, 2018
1
You are not an Atheist, you believe in you.
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