I don't know the answer to any of your questions. I can tell you as of late that I weep when I see sorrow. I feel others pain more than I used to. My hunch is crying is judged as a sign of weakness, and only the strong survive, but if that is true then we as a race have long road ahead before we can truly begin to understand life. There is more sorrow than happiness on this world. We must grab ahold of happiness when it comes our way, but we must learn to embrace sorrow in the same way.

@AMGT -- Grief is natural and a period for grieving is too. My first wife and unborn child were tragically killed and I remember what I felt at the time. Perhaps not vividly now because it has been 55+ years, but I remember. From that experience I can say this, I didn't give a damn who saw me cry or under what circumstances. I had reason for my grief, and it was going to come out however and whenever it came out.

That experience taught me something really important about how we deal with that type of pain. The more open you are about it, the sooner the pain fades. Don't get me wrong, that kind of deep, internal pain is something that no one, not even yourself can magically make disappear. It never goes away completely, and I still have some vestiges of it today. My eldest daughter lost her 18 year old son, a wonderful young man, because of a motorcycle accident. It has taken her a little over three years to come up out of that dark place into the sun. I have literally lost all of my close friends but one, and several family members since, and the need to grieve is there every time.

So what is a proper grieving period? There isn't a proper time of grief. It is whatever it takes, but I have to tell you that it does need some input from you. You need to drag yourself out into the light --- and it is difficult to do, but you must do it. There is nothing anyone can say or do aside from giving a sympathetic ear and keeping their mouth shut.

So, with that, I have nothing further to say other than I hope you find your own path out and that the pain, the grief will subside as fast as possible. There is much out here to live for.

Maybe it's simple things.

Listening to the person who is in pain, really listening.

Talk with them if they feel like talking about it. Don't presume you know how they're feeling, even if you have been through a similar situation

Be there if they just need to vent, even scream.

Be available as much as possible so they don't feel alone or abandoned, and always, always be there to give out hugs. Lots of hugs.

BTW @AMGT This song reminds me of you everytime I see your town. @AMGT. Sorry, the first try didn't take.

Although I have much to cry about, it almost never happens. I think the reason why is because, when I was growing up, crying was seen as exceedingly weak and would be met with ridicule or worse. So, although I recognize that crying is an essential behavior at the core of humanity, when I'm in the company of someone crying, I feel very uncomfortable. Crying in the company of others is unthinkable to me so when I'm with someone who is crying, I don't know how to respond and then I feel embarrassed.

It's an emotional deficiency and I hope that people stop raising children that way.

I think that most people don't know how to react, and their tendency is to comfort you some way.
I feel like hugging you now.
Anyway, how you explained it was wonderful.

I think that a good deal of our difficulty in handling intense emotions like grief is because our society is so shallow and superficial that most of us, myself included, are not equipped to deal with it. People say stupid, but well meaning things to distract from the grief. I think that the best thing that I can do for someone who is grieving is to shut the fuck up and listen to them. I really don't know what else I can do to help.

I think the secondary feelings of helplessness or powerlessness in the face of profound grief or sadness causes people to shut down. Most people want to take some kind of action, feel like they are doing something to escape the pain either in themselves or others. So frequently it comes down to just experiencing the pain if one doesnt resort to the standard escapes of drugs sex or you name it. We fear being overwhelmed by the pain. So many times I could only sit with a person in their pain, struggling with my powerlessness and their pain thinking I am doing nothing. I am ineffective and no help to this person. SOmetimes later I find out that presence has been enough even with no soothing words or hugs. Just accepting their truth/reality in that moment and anticipate their return with the same acceptance. THe person creates their own solution within that quiet. NOt sure if I digressed from your question but this is what came to mind

If I feel what you feel, will the feeling diminish me?

No. I will grow.

I am so sorry to hear about your son.
My younger brother was murdered when he was 20 y.o., it's been almost 30 years now, I think about him almost daily, the last message that I got from him was happy holidays and that he loves me, I never got a chance to call him back, I am tearing up thinking about it. Again I am so sorry to hear about your pain, you can and should cry, nobody can know what or how you are feeling.
Take care and be good to yourself

Worked in Psych field. I am fantastic at handing someone Kleenex until they can stop crying. And just sitting with them in their pain. I do think discomfort at crying is cultural. It's usually worse for men than women to have someone cry in front of them - but I hope that is changing. My sisters were telling me that my Dad used to offer them ice cream if they were crying? I don't remember this - but they were 8 and 12 years older than me - so perhaps they broke him in for me? I can remember him leaving the room if my Mom was there already.

I really don't think the discomfort is biological. I believe it is learned. We learn by the examples around us. Emotion is universal, but we are taught to hide tears and vulnerability. Because it is generally hidden, we don't get much chance to see how others respond. That leaves us feeling unsure what to do. Faced with someone obviously hurting, most of us feel pressure, like we are expected to "fix" that suffering. For me, personally, my mom was expressive and open (oh she had her other issues, to be sure, but in that sense, she was a good role model). Dad, however, though I know he is a kind person, always acted stiff and awkward, never even hugging, let alone shedding a tear. I got the loud and clear message that guys "should" emulate John Wayne. John Wayne is, to me, the embodiment of all things wrong with American models of masculinity. Stiff, repressed, absolutely forbidden from showing genuine emotion; supposed to project calm no matter what, like he can "handle" any crisis without breaking a sweat. If emotion is EVER allowed, it is only anger, never sadness. Sadness is supposed to be weak. So much bullshit!

I am someone who can tear up at a sad news report on the radio. I love tear-jerker movies. But I would still feel intimidated to be live in the presence of someone else showing emotion. My psychopathology training and subsequent experience did finally teach me to respect people's need to cry. So I no longer get uncomfortable. I no longer feel like I am supposed to "help" the person stop crying. As a therapist, I have the message still in my head to generally avoid crying with the person, because there is the risk a client/patient will think "oh God! I am so hopeless that even the therapist is upset!" (I don't stick to that 100%) In my personal life, I am much more permissive in letting myself go with the flow. But I definitely had to LEARN to be okay with that.

We were not allowed to have a voice of any kind growing up. Combine not being allowed to have opinions with being told to "Shut up!" while being beaten, and combine that with not having a kind, loving, nurturing household and you get kids -- but I'll just talk about me -- you get a person who has not ONE memory of EVER in my entire life, hugging my mom, having her hold me, comfort me, ask me what was going on, dry my tears, sit next to me on my bed and be a kind and loving and comforting voice -- or ANYTHING that would give a child the freedom to do a very natural thing.

So, I grew up to be a person terrified of being that human, that raw, that emotional, that VULNERABLE. And, while I have made progress after making a conscious decision about five years to live my life more authentically (in terms of not being terrified of vulnerability) and I don't try to control it QUITE so much, it still makes me feel VERY uncomfortable and I don't embrace the cry while in the presence of others. I do better when I am alone.

Besides being afraid to feel so vulnerable, I've seen my crying face and it's sooooooo not cute.

If somebody I care about is crying, I am uncomfortable for the same reasons -- feeling insecure about what they need from me in that moment; feeling weird because I'm afraid they might be embarrassed. Mostly, I just want them to feel like they CAN cry -- and I want them to feel safe with me, but I don't want to explain all that to somebody so mostly I just sit quietly and listen and sometimes say something like "Yeah, it's hard, I'm sure....."

Actually this happened JUST tonight at dinner. A good friend recently found out their granddaughter is severely autistic. She teared up several times. My heart broke, but it didn't feel like I could found the "right" words.

I don’t hide my tears in public. I don’t feel weak, the anger takes over. The hatred can be seen on my face, I’m sure. I get very judgmental in that moment.
You mentioned that a crying human should receive help and protection, and I have no idea how you used italics. Evolutionarily speaking, though, that human should be stomped out by the herd. I think the vestiges of that point in humanity’s progress are seen today as you describe. Maybe that’s why the anger comes to me. As defense against the instinct of others.

To see someone that vulnerable in public can be disconcerting. We all have certain dynamics or specified roles with people we know and in my case if I don't know the person who is sobbing it can be hard to determine what to do. I believe most times If I saw a stranger sobbing I would at least go up and ask them If I can help. If I'm familiar with someone who is sobbing I will try and figure out the best way to comfort them. If their boundaries preclude physical contact I will just sit with them even though I REALLY want to physically comfort them. It can be hard to accept that you can't remove someone's pain especially when I too often act like I can fix the world. I hope I would be able to sit there and hold your hand or even hold you for as long as you need. Take care.

I think we are afraid of emotional pain because we don't fully understand it, I know I don't. So I never know what to say, certainly don't know of any way to help. Sorry.

Wow. Hmm... That is an interesting observation I've never really put much thought into it.
I mean, each human is different, so their reason for being dismissive can vary.
I suppose it could be a broad range from being uncomfortable around someone who is crying to just not knowing how to handle the situation.
Then there are people who just don't want to be involved.

Anytime that I have encountered such situations brought on by grief of losing someone, I'll sit with the person and let them cry it out I convey the message that they aren't alone.
When it comes to grief there's very little that can be said or done that can magically wash the pain away.

I have been the only person in my family that does not cry regularly. It does not mean I have no empathy. In fact, I feel other’s pain deeply and am moved by that emotion. Tears have not come on easily for me in my life, as growing up my family would be touched by the tv shows (Little House on the Prairie) and such, and I wouldn’t understand why. I was often referred as The Grouch. It felt uncomfortable to cry and logically to me, someone had to keep a level head which was always where I stood.

I have found in these years as I have aged, that I have been touched more often and heart strings plucked on an almost regular basis, (mostly with my job and the intensity of abuse I have to type about), I have become more emotional, and can allow my feelings to show. Maybe for me, it’s about maturity, and being comfortable within my skin.

I feel deeply and greatly for those losses that bring one to their knees such as what you have experienced. I hope you’ve gained insight and strength from responses of “internet strangers” who feel your pain, albeit on alternate level.

Sending you a hug sista, because I can. ((@AMGT))

Oh geeze... I want be able to understand untill its happened to me.... I am deeply sorry that you lost your son...

I think it’s a question of culture. Americans aren’t comfortable with emotional displays. I’ve lived overseas and other cultures deal with it differently.
I would think open, empathetic conversation would be the most healthy way to deal with it.

Crying is a release like a pressure cooker and good for you but I know what you mean. I put my lovely staff cross down last year and naturally cried. the vet asked me if I wanted to go out of the back door and I said no I don't care what people think. I lost a sister too after that. people are crazy. there the same about being naked or talking about sex and much worse when you have a mental issue. fuck them I say. don't get me wrong id rather be on my own in my pain because I feel more comfortable but not because I care what people think.

Thankyou for sharing this deeply personal subject. ....when my father died 29 years ago half of me died. ...I cried for hours immediately after I lifted his shoulders up from his deathbed onto a stretcher. ...I felt a vibration and saw unusual light effects for weeks at work IN PUBLIC PLACES and listening to music with my eyes closed the light remained in my eyes.....these sensations echo yet today when I consider my dad never saw his 2nd grandchild by me ....how I hear his voice tones in her voice. ....perhaps the fact so few men cry in public I don't have a specific answer to your questions from my experiences????? Our pain is deeper than rose thorn punctures or fists to my gut....if anyone had said some stupid shit prEyer to me I would have spit Atheistic responses at them ....feel free to private message me anytime for any reason. ... my memories of grief are 58 years but vivid and rich with assuage from Lincoln. ..Corliss LaMont ...Ingersoll. ...the 7 stages Kubler-Ross . ...Drake University studies. ....but most importantly I listen and I ask if my thought in mind is conchordant with what I hear ....crying itself is a time to offer a hand or tissue or hug

Trust your intuition...there's a reason why you don't want to leave your house when you're overwhelmed by grief. You say it's to avoid "embarrassment" but you know you would only feel that way because of the huge amount of attention / assistance people would try to give you when they see you like that. And you also know you only need to grieve.

The healthy response I think is to just wallow in it for a while until you can't cry anymore. Then pick up the pieces and start trying to find the joy in life again. Whatever you feel like you need to get better IS healthy and normal.

I can sit in public with tears pouring. I don’t make much sound, I wear the stupid glasses everywhere because my eyes betray. These moments are when the anger comes. My son died. That is so fucking hard to write. He drowned. Then spent a god damn week dying in the hospital. I can’t believe it. He’s deserves so much more. I think this is about the point when the anger begins. He deserves more. I’d take his place in microseconds. The feeling of the heart sinking hits, palpitations and a negative adrenaline surge. The heart sinks again. The shallow breathing gets louder. Palpitation. I look up and there’s a human. My crying is silent. My tears are hidden by the glasses and beard. My face is wet but unseen. The sounds manifest as heavier, louder breathing. No one sees my tears, no one overs an unsolicited smile. I’d turn my head if they did, anyway. I don’t want to look in their eyes. This is my cherished pain, all I have left. Images of my son flash through my mind. There he is rolling a blunt. There he is at 6, already a skateboard prodigy. There he is at birth, forced collarbone break to be born. There he is in front of a judge in an orange suit denying knowledge that they weren’t allowed to drive that car. There he is playing with our dogs. Poof. There he fucking went. The human is still walking by. Still no smile, just the dismissal in favor of whatever flavor they’re into this week. Then the smiles come. Not to me, but for the meaningless dribble of society. “Hi how are you?” “Hi I’m fine” to each other through plastic smiles. I still sit on the curb, avoid him he looks homeless. Dirty clothes, scruffy long hair, he probably wants a beer. He needs a bath. Plastic people, plastic smiles. If they knew they wouldn’t care. Fuck, do something with your life worthy of my son. No, Jerry Springer comes on at 3. “Can you believe they live like that?” Oprah at 4. “Yay, look, we have new instructions, what are we reading now?” Plastic existence. They don’t live up to what Dakota lived. They are not worthy, yet they’re here. No justice exists. How dare they still be alive? How dare they? Breathing gets heavier and louder, almost hyperventilating, perhaps not almost. Thump thump thump I can hear my heart beating. The adrenaline pumps overtime. I’m glad I’m not a sociopath, at least I don’t think I am. But the hatred is unignorable. I walk away, taking comfort knowing that in 5 billion years, this will all be gone. Everything and everyone will be ashes spread across what used to be our stellar planetary system.
I don’t want to hate, yet I do. I don’t want to drag Amy into the dark world I see. I’m supposed to help her, not be a detriment. The emotional emptiness is unbearable and idk where to go or what to do. The simplest act of filing taxes or paying a bill become unachievable. I’m tired and not very enthusiastic. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to write a book.

Hi AMGT, how are you doing?

I don't have much to add, as so much has already been covered, but I do think that empathy is earned.

Pain is something you have to sit with to get through, and only those who have sat through enough of it can sit with others who experience it in the now.

I'm sitting with you. We haven't met, but I am sitting with you. If you need more than that, message me. I can sit with a lot.