Unless you've taken the necessary effort and the drugs to free your mind from such limitations. And have a understanding of physical law.
If you have a true comprehension of eternity, then you can understand man's place. We were not created by a superior being, we are a product of the earth and Sun. We started as bacteria about 4 billion years ago.
We are special because of our amazing history, not because we were created by a God.

@gater I don't follow your meaning regarding the necessary effort and the drugs in order to free your mind. I do have a basic understanding of physics but I would like to hear about your "true comprehension of eternity"
I agree, the human species has evolved on this planet over millions of years, but what is it about our amazing history that makes us special do you think?

@mrdunn You spoke of mans limitations when it come to comprehension. I believe man is capable of understanding eternity and all of its implications. Our ancestry goes back nearly 4 billion years, don't you think that's amazing? And I was referring to LSD.

@gater interesting, you equate hallucinogenic drugs with freedom of mind. Very Bohemian. I would have to say that my experiences with mind altering chemicals were less than enlightening. At the time it seemed like a good idea but on reflection they just dimmed my thoughts & clouded my vision.

I’m not sure what you mean by “understanding eternity” & I am even less sure about what you mean by the “implications” of this knowledge. What is there to understand about eternity & what might it imply do you think?

Yes, I do think the history of the universe (approx. 15 billion years), our galaxy, our solar system, life on our planet, mankind’s evolutionary process - is amazing, astonishing even, but why do you think we are special?

@mrdunn The Universe is infinite in size and age. - the Observable Universe is 15 billion years old and has limits.
I think 4 billion years of evolution makes us special - don't you?
Maybe you should define special.

@gater Quite right – the “observable universe”.
“Special” is your word David, I wouldn’t presume to define the meaning for you, that’s why I asked you. Now I understand your meaning to be four billion years of evolution is what makes us special. In that case one could argue that it makes us no more special than the lancet liver fluke, assuming you mean all evolutionary lifeforms are equally special. Or is there something that distinguishes the human being from other lifeforms on this planet?

I am genuinely interested to learn what you mean by ”I believe man is capable of understanding eternity and all of its implications” Are you able to elaborate on this?

@mrdunn Sure, I had a deep desire to know the truth about God and what was really going on. In High School I discovered that sometimes when I smoked pot - I could think deeper, understand more. But as much as I tried, I couldn't quite get there. During a Christmas break, I took LSD to try and learn what I couldn't quite get. It was wild - I did too much, I ended up in a mental hospital, but on the 3rd night, I woke up and I understood everything about "God" and life. Something happened to me - ive never been the same, but I believe I opened my mind because of what I comprehend. What I can tell you is that there was no beginning of time, and since matter can't be created or destroyed, we have always been here, as part of an infinite number of stars and planets. Also I understand physics - even calling bs on some accepted scientific theories, like wormholes and time dialation. Time and space are independent of each other. Einstein claims time is a 4th dimension - they talk about spacetime - I call bs.
Special - because of our long history. Not equally special - because man has conquered his world, we have technology, that makes us more special than other species.

@gater I can certainly relate to some of your experiences. Although I have never experienced a psychotic break personally, I know people who have, it leaves a deep and permanent impression on one’s psyche.

Can you explain what you mean when you say ” I understood everything about "God" and life”?
What understanding did you come to?

You may want to revisit your position on time dilation. The empirical evidence is very strong in support of this prediction of general relativity.

@mrdunn Sure, Until that moment in the hospital I believed in God, and then that moment of realization, I realized there was no God - that the Suns energy is what brought life to this planet.
My belief is Time and space are unrelated. That gravity has no effect on time.
They should call it clock dilation. Gravity may slow down a clock - but a clock is not time.
And wormholes - some science fiction writers are way off on this one. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line - basic, simple, and true.

@gater That is interesting David. What was the catalyst for the epiphany that led you to conclude that there is no God? i.e. Did something happen during the psychedelic experience that caused you to no longer believe in God?

It’s not just gravity that can slow time, velocity does also, and that is why c (the speed of light) is constant in all frames of reference. Satellites need to adjust for time dilation in order to synchronise with systems on earth.
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line only in relation to Euclidean geometry. Even then, what is the length of the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle with legs measuring 1 and 1?

@mrdunn Time is constant throughout the Universe. It is not affected by gravity or velocity. Devices used to measure time are affected - not time itself.

@gater Well. . . . good luck if you try to convince any high energy particle physicists that time is a universal constant, their job would be nigh on impossible without time dilation.

@mrdunn I think you are confusing Time dilation with clock dilation. GPS does depend on dilation for accuracy, they take in the effects of gravity on their equipment, but gravity has no effect on time.
Nothing effects time - it is a constant throughout the Universe.
If you don't believe this then your theories have some bad math or faulty logic in them.

@gater ok.

@gater I am a Shipwright by trade David.
m and r are my initials . . . . Mr Dunn is my father.

I am sure that from your perspective “clock dilation” has a logical meaning and I have been trying hard to understand your perspective, but I just can’t seem to wrap my head around your intention.

I know it seems counterintuitive, but there is no universal ”now”. Time and space are one and inseparable, and they are flexible. Gravity bends space and slows time, and velocity also slows time. These phenomena are regularly allowed for and included in practical applications.

Our bodies are clocks in that they age with the flow of time. If we were able to travel (and I’m sure one day we will) at a speed approaching light speed, then for us time would pass more slowly than for a person who is stationary relative to us. So much so, that for us one hour would pass and our bodies would have aged one hour, but for the stationary person, well they would have lived their life and died as hundreds of years would have passed in the stationary environment.

I don’t know how to resolve this phenomena with your term ”clock dilation”. What am I not understanding?

Yes!!!

Succinctly put

Doesn't a definition limit the extent of the understanding? So it also limits the range of the concept "God" I guess.

@Gert Without a definition for God, what exactly would you be worshipping but a mystery?
KNEEL to the great I don't know
God is a label for which there is no evidence of the actual product

@Davesnothere Well, most people are worshiping a mystery, don't they? Every religious individual paints his or her own picture of the god they worship, based on the vague descriptions they obtain from the religious dogmas and sermons. Paint a picture of God of Heaven, of Jesus, Brahma, of Buddha, of Jehovah, of Allah. I guess any religion has another vague definition of their god(s) and what they do for a living. Anyway a great magician that lives somewhere in the sky, is almighty and does nothing. Defining a god is limiting its existence. It takes away the mystical realm.

@Gert and why I am Ignostic

Ignosticism is an Epistomologic position; it is a set of ideas refuting the importance of determining the existence of God. It claims that knowledge regarding the reality of God is altogether unprofitable.

It is the idea that every theological position assumes too much about the concept of God and other theological concepts; including (but not limited to) concepts of faith, spirituality, heaven, hell, afterlife, damnation, salvation, sin and the soul.

IF you cannot even define what you are talking about, or consider it beyond human understanding, how is it you can claim to know anything about it and keep your intellectual integrity intact?

we have a big Thomas pain statue in our town and we used to have the rights of man pub.

Robo - no most religions give God credit for life. So if I had to give credit it would be the Sun. I suppose you could say that for any star that supported life

@gater The Sun creates the same energy as all the other stars out there. So if the energy made by our star is a god then the energy coming from all the others must be gods as well.

@RoboGraham just the ones that support life