It seems to me that a relevant number of people i this community are depressed and/or suicidal. It seems the percentage over the total exceeds the average overall population. Do you think it’s true? If -like myself- you also believe it to be true, do you think lack of religion or spiritual fulfillment leads to higher chance of depression? Do you think lack of belief in a higher being leads to depression or the other way around?
Thanks for your thoughts.
@Lucignolo -- Let's take this apart. I'm beginning to tire of bringing up the same issues over and over, but here goes. This group is a microcosm of society in general and that is extended to the fact that it is also a part of society that participates in social media, and broken down even further, owing to this being a dating site for many, we, like any other dating site, display that specific cross section of society that fits into all those categories. That suggests that much of our site's population is probably introverted to one extent or another and that, in turn, suggests that our population will have a bias toward those who have issues with communication and insecurities. However, it is important to understand that this site will reflect the broader human condition subject to the above observations.
I can tell you honestly that I have never had a lonely, depressed, or distressed day in my life. Hectic, yes. Oh, perhaps when I was born. That can't help but to have been a shock and somewhat of a distressing experience -- but I don't remember it. I do see some cynicism, pessimism, and angst on this site that is probably a little higher than society as a whole, but because of the above observations, that is to be expected. There have been some who have caught my attention with comments that project some degree of depression, but that's just a feeling based on what was said and has little clinical validity. Only a couple, in my experience, have given voice to their depression. Overall, I would say that my experience with this site has been one of positive attitudes tempered with realistic expectations.
I doubt seriously that lack of religion, its associated fear of damnation, the stress of needing to be like the Dead Jew on the Stick, and all the other pressures of leading the 'blessed' life would have much of a bearing on depression. I suggest that the opposite is the more likely. I also hasten to point out that it is not axiomatic that for one to participate in social media and sites like this one that he or she must be lacking in social exposure or graces elsewhere. Again, I can only use myself and those whom I know directly as examples.
i will add to this thoughtful explanation that some atheists never went through any trauma associated with becoming atheists; that not all atheists used to be christians; that there are an awful lot of factors that lead to depression but have nothing whatsoever to do with religion or lack thereof; that not every atheist comes here and that not everyone who comes here is an atheist, though we are the majority on this site.
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You have provided an interesting analysis. You bring up many valid points. It’s certainly true that this site is not a good representation of society, it’s true it attracts only some type of people, it’s true that this is also a dating site. I never claimed I want to obtain results that have “clinical validity” though. I’m not trying to earn my PHD based on the results to this question.
Given your correct observations, it would make no sense to ask any opinions at all because the results will never be objective and reflective of the atheist population as a whole. Obviously the results of any poll conducted within this space, will never meet the criteria of scientific reseach and it wouldn’t withstand the scrutiny of a peer reviewed journal. Does that mean it makes no sense to ask? Does it mean any finding is useless and severely biased? It’s a question posed to a big group of atheists/agnostic. If it’s good enough for me, why do you have a problem with it?
My thesis and my doctoral project thankfully is on the effects of repeated inhaled anesthetic exposure on the developing brain of children younger than three years old. I don’t come here to conduct research for my doctorate. I come here to have a chat. Some people find it outrageous that I dare to ask some questions.
Who cares. It’s just a question on the internet in an agnostic forum. No one gets killed. It’s not a big deal.
@Lucignolo -- A bit of an unwarranted tirade, don't you think? You also, in this diatribe, inserted ideas and words into my response that didn't exist and aren't consistent with what was said.
@evidentialist I don’t think I inserted ideas. If I did it wasn’t purposeful.
It seems a large proportion of atheists here show a resentment of a religion that they feel harmed them. Is this a sort of depression? Anyway not all atheists see themselves as having been victims of religion and, hence, do not suffer such "depression."
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I'm sorry this site seems that way to you. It might be you're looking for like minded people to be depressed with. Like one post said there's no scientific proof to back up your assumption. If your looking for "like minded" you might want to try a religious site. I'm sure you'll find all the depression you're looking for.
Woah... That’s unnecessarily rude. Someone is grumpy. Chill out dude. I was asking for opinions. Should I leave the site for that? We are here to throw ideas and share our thoughts. That’s the whole point. If the question bothers you, don’t answer and let me be.
You may not be depressed, but you are certainly grumpy
Just your observation is not exactly scientific is it? No, I don’t believe that atheists, either on this site or in the population at large, are more prone to depressive illness than theists. If I had to guess I would say that probably the reverse is true, but without any data to back this up it remains an assumption only.
There are many supporting studies, but there are also conflicting studies. As is often the case with psychology, it’s hard to find definitive answers.
I’m interested in the opinions of the atheists in this community. Not claiming to make science
@Lucignolo Okay, l get your point in canvassing our thoughts. My opinion is no, although there are undeniably some people on this site who are suffering from some sort of depressive illness, those of us who thankfully don’t suffer will be not be identifiable since we don’t speak about not feeling depressed. Do you get my point?
I imagine that ostracized atheists are equivalent to ostracized LGBT persons, similarly affected by depression and suicide at a higher rate. I would also expect community like Agnostic.com to mitigate this effect.
Any ostracized group has a higher risk factor for suicide and depression. Would love to see some hard data on this topic.
@JazznBlues I think the similarities are certainly real--even the concept of coming "out" of the closet is something we also go through with family.
@JazznBlues There is data, studies and articles. I don’t fully trust the results. There is a lot of conflicting and controversial data on the subject.
There is also science, such as medications that induce mystical experiences. They help greatly with depression. See above
If one had suffered from spiritual abuse previously , such as in relation to some sort of cult , one might be dealing with symptoms of depression , as a result . [rawstory.com] , [journeyfree.org] On a personal note , I myself had experienced a scrupulousity obsession , resulting in part from my religious upbringing , particularly regarding Christian perfectionism . [disorders.net] , [blogs.spiritualabuse.org] I suspect that it might seem like atheists tend to be so emotionally troubled because the most vocal atheists , or more accurately put anti-theists , are those who feel that they had been harmed by their former religion .
No, but I'll say I'm much more easily irritated by bullshit.
I don't think there's any relation between being atheist and depression. My older brother is bipolar and he's religious. Of course there will be atheists /agnostics that suffer from depression but I don't think you can relate things.
How were you able to determine this? "It seems the percentage over the total exceeds the average overall population. Do you think it’s true" And which overall population? USA? The world?
And you are mistaken... depression is biological and/or environmental.... you can be born with it, it can be caused by your envt such as experiencing abuse or going through trauma or a combination of a bad envt exacerbating a biological predisposition. One's religiosity, or lack thereof, does not cause depression. Silly question.
How was I able to determine this? Something called science and scientific research. Check out the many articles I provided. There are many links in the comments below.
I think the correlation has to do with difficulty in finding purpose and meaning, lack of supporting community, social stigma and isolation.
Have you heard of nihilism? Not everyone is prepared to accept life is inherently pointless. Not everyone can find their own meaning in a universe where our lives or existence don’t matter.
It’s a crucial question, not a silly one. If you don’t care then you don’t care about your fellow atheists and human suffering.
@Lucignolo Those scientific articles claimed atheism caused depression? Or rather, did it show, that religious people have an easier time coping with their depression than atheists? If it is the latter, that makes perfect sense, because non-believers are not very good at the community thing. One of the two things I miss about being religious is the sense of community and social support one got from going to church or meeting with one's fellow believers. Yes I have heard of nihilism. I would say that for me personally, one of the few things that kept me going was a fear of hell.... it is considered a sin to commit suicide and guarantee to get you in to hell... and I was scared of eternal torture after a life of suffering. heh go figure.
You know, the way I see it, depression is like a deep seeded sadness. So bad that one cannot find the light, you must be lost before you find the path home. Most religious people are just lost people. Indoctrinated at their most vulnerable. I've never been a religious man, but I have dabbled in witch craft and what not. Nowadays I feel much aware and enjoy the moment, and not looking future of my death. Now that's depressing.
I don't believe that atheists or agnostics have a higher rate of depression. I can only speak of my own experience and the dozens of people that I have discussed this with.To me when this is the only life I have, I have nothing to die for. So I spend every every minute of life making it the best it can be. To me religious people are more often depressed because when negative things happen, they wonder how God(or other deity) could do this to them.
I think social groups in general tend to attrack lonely people. Many lonely people are depressed. But to say this group has more depressed people than the general average, therefore atheists are depressed is week.
I think you're very brave. Depression has nothing to do with religion.
Sometimes it sneaks up on me. The external stresses of life.
Do you like music? Are there songs that bring good memories? I have songs that send tingles up and down my spine.
You've taken a big step in asking for help. It's early out here and the coffee hasn't kicked in.
Is it seasonal. You live way North. I read about light therapy.
I have no idea.
I am not, and never have been, clinically depressed.
I am rarely unhappy and enjoy my life. On days I experience what I consider to be negative emotions, I talk myself out of them. I focus on the positives and look forwards not backwards. It works for me.
I have always been an atheist, so cannot compare if I would have done things different if I had ever been a believer and I haven't searched to see if there is any research to compare mental health with religiosity, except that the more secular the country, the greater their societal health. The happiest nations are mostly the scandinavian countries where religiosity is lowest.
Getting beat on the head all the time about being a evil sinner....being judged every minute of every day for all the bad evil thoughts that you should feel guilty about......being taught from early childhood that you should sacrifice your life for whoever and whatever calls for it?..........being taught that you should not reason for solutions in your life, but to just "have faith" .....come on, why would that cause a person to be depressed?????
Believing when you navigate through though times, Jesus loves you with all his power. Believing there’s a benevolent, all powerful being that lovingly watches you, believing the injustice you’ve had to withstand will be rectified, believing the more you suffer the bigger the reward, finding comfort ina. community/tribe of likeminded believers, being told even if you are mediocre and average at everything you are wonderful and special to the eyes of god....
You gotta look at both sides... It’s all a pile of warm ? but it’s comforting
I don't see the depression here that you do. Haven't come across anyone here that seemed suicidal. I think you might be mistaking cynicism and sarcasm for depression. Personally, I am happier and more relaxed since stripping myself of theistic delusions. Religious people are actually often under a lot of pressure to be good enough, have enough faith, keep up appearances, maintain their reputation in the congregation, always interpret scripture correctly, believe the socially acceptable right things, never let any doubt show, etc. I've known a lot of fake-happy Christians who put on a happy face.
I’ve seen three messages of people contemplating suicide and many posts of people talking about their depression.
I work in anesthesia. There’s increasing evidence that drug induced mystical experiences are very effective treatments
for depression. Atheists are deprived of those experiences, hence my question.
There are clinics that administer Ketamine, a potent dissociative sedative is used legally, but other drugs that aren’t legal seem to be even more effective. The problem with Ketamine is that it also causes amnesia, so many people benefit from the administration but don’t recall the experience. I’m not talking about recreational use. I’m talking about administration within the clinical setting.
Atheists often deny the value of entire aspects of the human existence due to the fact that religions have claimed ownership over those aspects. This may prevent some healthy practices or characteristics of human existence from being taken into consideration and ignored altogether.
As atheists interested in seeking truth and happiness, we may want to reincorporate some of those aspects.
@Lucignolo "Atheists are deprived of those experiences..." Uh, no. Advanced techniques of veteran meditators--who could absolutely be entirely secular --can induce all kinds of trips, "mystical experiences", etc. They're called siddhis (or iddhis) and they're well-understood, well-documented phenomena in meditation circles.
It seems to me (from my limited research into meditation) that the kind of experiences or state(s) you describe are latently available functions of the human brain, accessible with or without drugs, or a belief in anything supernatural.
As to the tx of depression, basic, kindergarten-level meditation can be extremely helpful--no fireworks or angel-sightings required.
@Lucignolo What you say may be true of some atheists, especially those who are still struggling with their non-belief and with persecution, but I think you are incorrect in lumping all atheists into the same category. There are plenty of people on this website who have had some sort of spiritual experience. Being an atheist just means you don't believe in a god out of rationality and a call for evidence. Being rational does not lead to depression.
@Heraclitus yes, I understand and I agree. Generalizing is always imprecise but there are patterns and percentages.
One does not equal the other.
One does not follow the other.
There is no proven cause/effect relationship of which I'm aware.
Have you found any studies that show any relationship?
I provide anesthesia so I know a little about drugs and almost nothing about psychology. Drug induced mystical experiences of the sort that make you feel one with the universe and similar, can treat depression often better than many strong, debilitating antidepressants.
I would like to see if a study has been done on this. Just from observation I see it as the opposite. More theists are depressed. It may have to do with numbers though. I would really like to se percentages. And if it were true, like what was said before, I think it would point more towards community more so that a god.
Yeah... A study on the subject would be very interesting