I'm a liberal myself, but I understand what conservatives mean when they talk about many liberals because I've had so many negative experiences myself. They act similar to many conservatives in that they think what they believe or accept should be obvious to everyone, and they shouldn't have to explain how they came to the position. They don't try to see peoples' true intentions or have compassion for people who are misguided and ignorant as opposed to actually hateful and harmful. I
For instance, I asked in a group of, well, mostly liberal atheists why some of them thought black people couldn't be racist. I did not get an argument; I got a deluge of insults and non-sequiturs. They made every assumption about me and gave me little response time as 4 or 5 people talked over me.
I have a friend who accidentally mis-gendered a transgender person. This friend is notorious for having a bad memory and apologized profusely to the individual but continued to be berated by everyone in the group because "how could he not remember?"
These are far from the only examples.
I believe that there are times to put your foot down, and there are times to be aggressive, but I feel like this should mostly be...when other people are being aggressive, not when someone is trying to learn why you think what you think and genuinely means you no harm.
Anyone have any experience with this or disagree? Are you one of these liberals, and how do you view this part of yourself, or why do you feel the need to do this, and how much good do you feel it does the world?
I live in a socialist city. On the odd occasion when I dare to express a view that might differ from the party line I get shot down in flames. One time I said that Blair was a bad PM. (Two illegal wars and an economy in taters). The defence of Blair was such that reminded me of Liverpool football fans when their striker Luis Suarez bit an opposing player. " It was only a nip...He didn`t mean it " etc. Another issue that I get stick about is fracking. I know you guys in the US have had this for quite a while and also there have been problems. Now we (the UK) have discovered about 50 years of energy under our land. The environmentalists, left and homeowners are totally opposed to any use of fracking. My argument is that we want the lights to go on when we want to but are not too happy if we have to pay the environmental cost. The operative word there is " we " . We, are perfectly ok with energy from other sources like Russian gas or Colombian coal but not if means that we are affected.
I think everyone could stand to roll more humility.
So true. I definitely need to be reminded of that more often than I like to admit...
Me too.
I'm thinking about making a T-Shirt :
Arrogance + Ignorance = Stupidity
Humility + Knowledge = Wisdom
I don't like "snotty" anybody ! From what you're describing though, simply sounds like ornery folks looking for any reason to object, be offended, attack, or start an argument.
I never saw the value in meeting verbal aggression with aggression . It solves nothing, gets everyone riled up, and there is less likelihood of coming to a place where everyone can feel ok.
If everyone is looking to "win" - rarely does anyone do so.
Hear,hear!
I think that close minded people of any stripe are a pain in the ass to be around. I call them fundamentalists. They take a position and follow it blindly. There are fundamentalist atheists, fundamental liberals and conservatives etc. It is the lack of critical thinking that makes them hard to be around.
Being obnoxious is not restricted to one ideological side. I got into an online discussion about public breast feeding; I didn't think a tiny bit of modesty was too much to ask. People FREAKED OUT. Things like: "Let's see YOU eating under a blanket and see how YOU like it!" and all sorts of accusations that went WAY beyond anything that I'd advocate. And, how DARE I not be enchanted by this beautiful bonding display?
I don't agree with people freaking out and attacking.
I do agree that we shouldn't make babies eat under blankets just so the adults in the room can be more comfortable.
That said, I think there is a way to be natural, free and not carelessly make other people uncomfortable. A touch of discreet, without hiding.
@BlueWave Yes, a touch of discretion. Not wearing a burka or hiding in a bathroom stall.
I’m a moderate, libertarian leaning independent... I notice both sides have the same bad behavior. But liberals want to tell others how to process things versus why you should want to, like any discourse is awful and it’s frustrating. Even if you agree but view things slightly differently, somehow you’re a monster.
I'm annoyed by snotty people, no matter their political leanings.
I do agree people are sometimes too quickly up in arms, and react with disgust and judgement instead of having a civilized discussion. Perhaps far more problems could be solved if we just talked openly with each other and attempted to understand instead of immediately criticizing. We are, after all, only human, and our frame of reference often isn't as wide as we think.
I agree
Liberals are capable of stupidity and hypocrisy as well, being human.
As can Conservatives and any other human characteristic.
@jlynn37 true. I'm liberal, btw.
Ok liberal political activist here. Sometimes we can misinterpret remarks. I confess I have done it here. I say what is on my mind-sometimes being spontaneous is an asset but it can also be a liability.
I have been accused of being a conservative Republican because I dared criticize Democrat politicians for some things. I'm actually pretty far left according to the American political spectrum. I'm a liberal that supports politicians like Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kuchinich, Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader, and the Jill Steins of the world. Then on the opposite side, I get accused of being a commie or socialist. You can't win lol
@Akfishlady Apparently they don't. They are either radical conservatives, dumb, or just trolling. As soon as you mention Bernie Sanders or government aide to citizens they say communism or socialist. If you are left of them on any point of the spectrum they think you're Marx or Lenin.
To me liberal just means tolerant. What you describe isn't tolerant. I agree there are those on the left who are as bad as those on the right. I just don't run into to them as much because of where I live. It's most right wing trump supporters where I live. Around here it's very nice to meet someone who is liberal, and the liberals I know are very easy to get along with.
I agree. The liberals who I know in real life are wonderful! But online, that's another story. Also, I'm in a pretty red county, so liberals here are pretty low-key.
I think everyone deserves a chance to unpack and learn without being dogpiled. It is when people refuse to learn and change and continue to be problematic and willfully ignorant that I have to write them off.
I am a lifelong liberal, and I disagree...I have seen this in liberals a few times, yes, but really not often, and I have seen it many, many more times in other political ideological groups. As far as the group berating your friend: this sounds more to me like just snotty, self-important people, who come in all political orientations. I don't think snotty people and liberals should be conflated this way. As far as insults, non-sequiturs, assumptions, and skirting the subject: well, I can think of quite a few people (one in particular) in the political world who do this on a regular basis, and none of them are liberals.
I call those "california liberals" ,sorry California, you're beautiful, but you have a lot of over the top into outer space SJW types in your hood...
I'm pretty liberal, but there are some as whenever there are people, there are ranges of types that are just "out there" and follow herdthink.
Black people can't be racist? Really? LOL NO human is immune to prejudice! NONE, certainly not based on skin color alone! DUHR
Some of the things that get me with some "liberals" (and I use that term loosely) are blind adherence to "science" without investigation. "Science" being the sacred cow of the left despite the left typically being the side that normally questions EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE but "science", particularly in regard to the for profit pharmaceutical industry.
I mean how can one give implicit trust to an industry that creates false shortages and price gouges based off "what the market will bear"? Yes there are committees who gather and arbitrarily decide how much profit can be made of particular treatments like say, breast cancer, vs the actual cost of manufacturing. It's f****ing disgusting, but oh no, when it comes to the latest GREATEST vaccination, despite the epidemic of kids with an onslaught of new problems, it suddenly becomes an attack on "science".
Another peeve is the PETA mentality that has infected the general public. For instance, few ever pay attention to HOW there are animals in shelters, they just assume it's breeders in general, and no examination into how people are acquiring animals to begin with = no screening of potential home that's how, and the one off back yard breeder with no community connections to help insure good homes.
Whew, that got me on soapbox. But yes, there are blind spots in humans. A lot of people parrot stuff without thinking.
I am a very liberal atheist. I also would never treat such questions with aggression or hostility. I like hearing about people's experiences and the hows and whys they believe something to be true. If they spew nothing but "talking points" and insults, I will lose respect for their ability to engage in meaningful conversation. I may still be acquaintances with them, but I would tend to not tread in any water more than an inch deep.
This happened to me this morning. I used a perfectly acceptable word in a perfectly acceptable way and several souls less liberal than me came down on me like a garbage truck load of Trump. 'Splained to me how I couldn't use that word because...
What was the word and in what context?
@JeffMurray ghetto dialect
Just like any zealots, they hate their beliefs beings questions. be it religion, politics, or even food. lol
I think everyone has sacred topics that we don't like to be questioned. My roommate and I often debate topics as friends, but we both know to lay off on a topic if our rebuttals stray from facts and start entering fallacy of logics.
Perhaps its human nature that we must lash out or fight for our deeply held beliefs (again, deeply held beliefs are not limited to religion or politics)
It should be our goal to be able to realize that, and keep a conversation or debate as civil as possible, for if not, we hurt the very cause we set out to defend.
Thoughts?
Yes, ZEALOTRY! Thank you, that's the word that I've been needing. Liberals can be zealots just like Trump supporters. Fanatical and uncompromising. But I'm FAR more inclined to support the things the liberal fanatics are zealous about.
My neighbor and friend , have recognized there are some topics we should simply not discuss . We've been friends for about 7 years now . We are aware we disagree and , and feel the friendship is more important than trying to convince one another that one of us is right , and one is wrong .
At my age (really old!) I find most people annoy me. I guess that's why I talk to our cats.
It shows a lack of manners and class. I have very little patience for rude and uncouth people, no matter what theii ideologies may be.
Absolutely, that sort of arrogance and unnecessary aggression only alienates people.