I'm a liberal myself, but I understand what conservatives mean when they talk about many liberals because I've had so many negative experiences myself. They act similar to many conservatives in that they think what they believe or accept should be obvious to everyone, and they shouldn't have to explain how they came to the position. They don't try to see peoples' true intentions or have compassion for people who are misguided and ignorant as opposed to actually hateful and harmful. I
For instance, I asked in a group of, well, mostly liberal atheists why some of them thought black people couldn't be racist. I did not get an argument; I got a deluge of insults and non-sequiturs. They made every assumption about me and gave me little response time as 4 or 5 people talked over me.
I have a friend who accidentally mis-gendered a transgender person. This friend is notorious for having a bad memory and apologized profusely to the individual but continued to be berated by everyone in the group because "how could he not remember?"
These are far from the only examples.
I believe that there are times to put your foot down, and there are times to be aggressive, but I feel like this should mostly be...when other people are being aggressive, not when someone is trying to learn why you think what you think and genuinely means you no harm.
Anyone have any experience with this or disagree? Are you one of these liberals, and how do you view this part of yourself, or why do you feel the need to do this, and how much good do you feel it does the world?
I'm pretty liberal and have to say that I've experienced this first hand. The sad part is that they are just hurting the cause. I have one guy who claims that he is just "blunt" and tells it like it is. Yeah, calling me a child molester and homophobic is not "telling it like it is" when an hour later to have to tell everyone that the information you sent to prove that I was wrong and you were right happened to also point out that you were using the wrong word and therefore I was right. They expect everyone to be in the know. One slip up of a word and now you are a monster. And they go so extreme. I've been told I need to be raped (am a rape victim and child rape victim) and that my children need to be raped. Niiiiice coming from a group against raping people.
Of course not all Liberals are like this. I don't feel I am. But those who are just hurt the cause and make it harder for change.
Agree whole-heartedly, Katrinia. Thanks for the input. It encourages me that so many liberals are starting to see this. I think if enough of us realize it, we have the potential to make some pretty drastic changes.
I feel like both sides can be just as close minded. I've known just as many conservatives as I have liberals who just hurl insults and think their way is the only way and how could you not see it my way, but have no facts or explanations for their beliefs.
Humans in general would do well to stop talking over people and start listening to each other. It's ok for people to disagree on major issues, but no need for be hateful, judgemental, or hostile.
There's a shock jock radio DJ here in Charlottesville that calls those you're referring to "Smug douches." I can't stand him or the divisiveness he peddles as entertainment, and yet I love that term. I call myself that sometimes when I start on my holier-than-thou rants.
Take the chip off your shoulder. Not everyone is out to insult you and not every difference of opinion is an insult.
Listen to what other people say with an eye towards comprehending their point of view. Your job of understanding others is not complete until you can articulate their point of view in a manner that they would agree is accurate. Doing this does not require altering your own perspective.
He who shouts loudest is not necessarily the rightest. He who signals the most virtue is not necessarily the one who should make the decision. He who accuses others the most may well be personally guilty of the subject of the accusation.
We'd all benefit from listening more and shouting less. That goes for liberals, conservatives, theists, atheists, men, women, and everyone in between or orthogonal to those identifications.
Very well said. I completely agree with all of this, except your first sentence.
Cool! I presume your reservation is based on the notion that sometimes, people are actually doing bad things or acting on a bad intention, which (sadly) is true.
My suggestion is to not presume that this is what's going on when there is a disagreement, in the absence of other evidence.
I live in a socialist city. On the odd occasion when I dare to express a view that might differ from the party line I get shot down in flames. One time I said that Blair was a bad PM. (Two illegal wars and an economy in taters). The defence of Blair was such that reminded me of Liverpool football fans when their striker Luis Suarez bit an opposing player. " It was only a nip...He didn`t mean it " etc. Another issue that I get stick about is fracking. I know you guys in the US have had this for quite a while and also there have been problems. Now we (the UK) have discovered about 50 years of energy under our land. The environmentalists, left and homeowners are totally opposed to any use of fracking. My argument is that we want the lights to go on when we want to but are not too happy if we have to pay the environmental cost. The operative word there is " we " . We, are perfectly ok with energy from other sources like Russian gas or Colombian coal but not if means that we are affected.
Bertrand Russel, a great mathematician and philosopher counted socialism as a world religion. Present day liberalism is actually a form of socialism. Everything is judged by the dogma, contradictory facts are condemned as fake and contradictory opinions are violently - yes VIOLENTLY opposed.
A true liberal is respectful of all people, even those who hold opposite opinions. The present day liberals are anything but.!
Letting one's emotional pendulum swing too far either way never helps a converstion or situation.
Caring kind excepting of every one no judging IV found my self happiest being alone and secluded from most people in different but its a good thing ?
I'm really liking this conversation, but I want to reiterate. I'm a liberal myself, so this isn't supposed to be against all liberals. That's why I qualified it from the jump. I have to say, I do think it's a group issue. These aren't my only experiences, and I'm not saying other groups don't do annoying or negative things. I just think that some liberals were told what to believe in college and accepted it similar to the way conservatives are inculcated, and so they don't know why they believe what they believe, though many of their conclusions are right in my opinion. This means when it comes time to explain why they believe what they believe, they know they are going to have difficulties because they didn't think it out, and this generates negative feelings. Or it might be some time of vestigial personality from when academics were strictly from the intelligentsia, so they have an aristocratic persona that doesn't "cast pearls among swine." Just my 2 cents. I think liberals are eating themselves, and as the only viable party at this point that seems to respect science and academic ideas, I don't want this to happen.
Some fall to the liberal side due to education and experience, others do so like ‘picking a team.’ Some take extremist positions simply for attention.. It is tuff and tricky for young people to weigh the facts and formulate a deeply researched or experienced opinion by voting age.. but a decade after that they should have it figured out.
Having formed such an opinion from a lifetime of observation and experience, I once found myself next to some who’d consider themselves ‘radical leftists.’ They were as devious & dirty as their extremist opponents … and a lesson I’ll never forget.. The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend...
Stay critical in your thinking; though it may eventually alienate you from both extremes … you’ll likely find better company in the middle..