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Natural versus learned Agnostics?
Is there such a thing? I came to atheism via the nonsense they tried to teach me in catechism class. Can you read books and get yourself there?

Spinliesel 9 Feb 8
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21 comments

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9

I contend that atheism is the human default position. We're all born not believing. We're all born atheists. Anything else must be taught. Although, if anyone is looking for a book to read that will get them back to atheism, I'd suggest the bible. If you can read the whole thing, and not be completely gobsmacked by the absurdity contained therein, you're a lost cause.

8

One of the best ways to create and A-theist is to just read the bible.

For the most part, you're right.
But it also depends on the individual's comprehension skills.

@SteveB also very true

5

In all honesty, I don't see the point in categorizing into natural and learned. An atheist is an atheist.
Everyone has a different path into the same conclusion.
Be it reading books, listening to reason, etc.
Hell, when we are born. We're all atheist. We don't know religion. We're taught/indoctrinated into the beliefs of our parents and community.

3

I regret to say that I do believe some people are born with a predisposition to religion, and, in many cases, no amount of books, arguments or discussion will change them. I don't know why. It's something I have thought about a lot. It seems to be nature, rather than nurture. On the other hand, some are born with a natural immunity to religion, and no amount of upbringing, books, religious instruction etc will reach them. Between these groups, there are others, with varying degrees of religiosity, from non to religious, and I think upbringing, experience, reading, exposure to knowledge and many other things affect their views. I don't particularly like this analysis myself. But it's what I have concluded from my observation. I would love to think that all people are born non religious, and that eliminating religious influence would eliminate religion. I just don't think it's that easy.

@SchuylaRDiamond. Yes, I agree with your last statement. It comes down to psychology, neurology, and other fields in which I am not qualified, but can appreciate. I know that there is research on brain processes and belief which is quite interesting. But whether brains are, for want of a better term, "wired" for religious belief at birth, I don't know, but the reality that some people are born to be predisposed to religion is interesting but concerning, and how and if they can change that.

3

I think that religion only exists because of indoctrination at an early age. If children were educated and then introduced to the Bible, they would see it for the mythology it is, and the same is true of other religions as well.

I feel exactly the same way. If you could raise kids in a bubble, void of religion, but well educated and a with a good working knowledge of critical thinking skills, there’s no way one could find religion reasonable or believable.
I was exposed to religion when I was younger. My Mom wanted my brother and I to have the “experience” so we could make our own decisions about our personal beliefs. I never bought into it. I just never could believe a bit of it and always thought the adults within the church were absolutely nuts!

Ricky summed it up really well:

3

Logic is definitely a way to get there, but other people get there through honest research. Matt Dillahunty is a guy who was extremely religious until he started doing more research into his faith. He looked at everything from an unbiased outside opinion and realized it made no sense to base his life on the idea. He now does formal debates with predominant leaders of the church, and with no formal training, holds his own rather well. The people who hold on to the religion don't look at it from another view and ultimately fall prey to the very obvious training to appeal to their faith and religious authority instead pf questioning things.

Good books to read are a google search away. Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and several authors point out both the flaws in religion and the science that explains what we know to be true.

[thethinkingatheist.com]

Points out bible contradictions and books include

The God Delusion

God is not Great

Letter to a Christian nation

The God Virus

To name a few

3

Certainly. Reading philosophy supplis a lot of good food for thought but reading the bible or koran, both of which are chock full of bull, contradictions and horror, can convince any reasonable person to eschew religion.

2

I was not raised in a religious household. My parents were fine with me going to church with my friends if I wanted to and/or ascribing to a religion if I wanted to. But they did not practice or convey any belief system. My stepfather was raised Catholic but rejected the religion when it was used to excuse abuse from his father. My mom was not raised by religious parents either. I have never been religious. One might say it is because my parents did not convey religious beliefs to me. Possibly. But they did tell me Santa Claus existed and I never bought that, either. So perhaps I am naturally reality-based.

2

I don't think there ARE "Natural" Atheists.

A "natural" atheist wouldn't be one who educated themselves to that conclusion, just someone who hadn't been told about a deity.

But, can you name one society, tribe or civilisation that didn't adopt some form of deity to explain what is going on ? People will create a "best guess" to explain their world even if they don't get "advice" from others.

2

I was just resentfully antireligious as a kid. I grew up in SLC and resented being treated as a second class citizen by the mormons. That led naturally to antireligious rhetoric and eventually philosophy. So yes. It can happen.

2

I've been an agnostic all my life. My mom was an atheist, but it did't influence me much. She was more of the 'religion annoys me so keep it over there away from me' type of atheist. Haha. So it came to me just naturally.

2

Read the Oxford History of Christianity. It's a text book but openly cites the other religions Christianity came from and was later altered by, it would amaze me that a conscious thinker would read it and not come out completely atheist. It's is used as a text book for aspiring Anglican ministers. Go figure.

2

Just reading the bible as a book should do the trick.

2

I am sure there are many books, theology section in any big city library I would think. Not much in the Bible Belt. I sorta got there on my own.

1

i always have been just perplexed by all these adults talking utter fucking crap even at the age of -5 being made to go to Sunday school and shops used to be shut on Sundays with fuck all but kiss ass songs and talking about the holy one on the tv too after a week at school being made"they thought" to say and sing religious drivel at normal school too which I also hated.I think it was easier as a kid for me to wonder why we all were putting our hands together to talk to someone I never sore. especially when I was asking natural but uncomfortable questions to which the people I'm supposed to learn off of can't give anywhere near a straight answer. remembering my family did none of this shit and they seemed just fine.

1

I am what I would consider a natural atheist. I just don't have the kind of brain that can believe in hocus pocus even if I WANTED to! For me it is that simple.

NZVee Level 4 Feb 8, 2018
1

Sure.
Even vicious hate memes plastered on my Facebook page by Christian friends can push someone into being agnostic.

1

Natural would be a kid born to atheists or open families who don’t force doctrine, or those who just never bought in— I was like that, same with my oldest nephew. He was saying how Jesus couldnt have been dead/misdiagnosed at 3. His sister on, the other hand, was innately interested in the Virgin Mary and will be a devout religious type no doubt in my mind. Others do learn, but most are probably a little from column A, a little from column B.

0

I am like you, I was forced to go to sunday school, church, summer bible camp and lastly confirmation classes. I would question the minister and spent a lot of time in the hallway trying to discover the faith he told me I needed. For me the formal religious training just made me question it more until I decided it was all a load of crap and quit attending.

0

Thank you all for your replies. The majority of us think that reading the bible and other "sacred text" with a critical mind and sharp-eyed observation will get you to doubt and then reject the god thing. From my own, long life I would add that my parents telling me fairy tales and mythology and poetry and " Heldensagen" (stories of heroes, think Roland or Beowulf) filled the place in our psyche that could have been occupied by religion. And of course, there was no television. In hindsight, I consider myself fortunate. ( Fortuna, goddess of fortune) We really have to pay attention to the words we use.
By the way, thank you for the word "gobsmacked." That was a new one for me.

0

i always have been just perplexed by all these adults talking utter fucking crap even at the age of -5 being made to go to Sunday school and shops used to be shut on Sundays with fuck all but kiss ass songs and talking about the holy one on the tv too after a week at school being made"they thought" to say and sing religious drivel at normal school too which I also hated.I think it was easier as a kid for me to wonder why we all were putting our hands together to talk to someone I never sore. especially when I was asking natural but uncomfortable questions to which the people I'm supposed to learn off of can't give anywhere near a straight answer. remembering my family did none of this shit and they seemed just fine.

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