Carbon Tax
Washington state is posed to put a carbon tax in effect.
Do you think this is a good idea? It's been looked at as a means for reducing carbon emissions in a way that puts the burden on producers. It is being done in CA and British Columbia apparently, what has changed, what has improved?
5
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Now an opinion: I understand what the concept is and I can see that it works, but it is limited. I think that a combined policy of taxing emissions at lower rates than proposed while simultaneously subsidizing clean energy industries would be more effective. Rather than aiming only at reducing emissions, we should establish policies that encourage and promote efforts in developing better and cleaner ways of meeting our energy needs from short term to long term. We should also establish policies that hold our governments accountable for their considerable carbon footprints. The US military usage alone is astounding.
evidentialist
Level 8
Feb 10, 2018
1
@Akfishlady -- My home is the home of an environmentally conscious and concerned physicist and as energy efficient as it is it still requires considerable carbon to keep the electricity we use flowing from the grid. There is a serious need for a strong national interest at the governmental level in the issue of reducing emissions by phasing out of fossil fuels for all utilities. Penalizing industries and citizens and not the government (one of the larger polluters, by the way) is not reasonable nor is it enough. The carbon footprint of our military alone is huge, even without being engaged in conflicts.
@evidentialist Sounds good. My home has solar, is insulated to the hilt (the space over my hallway has 3' of insulation), I have a rainwater harvesting water supply, a gravity type septic and the temp is kept at 65 and on and on. Most of our electricity is hydro. And this in a temperate climate zone.
The big problem is, is that so much of our government is controlled by the industry. We now have the industrial-military complex Eisenhower warned us about. Our present government is kissing the feet of industry and rabid religion. More and more it is up to the states to take charge.
@JackPedigo -- Yep, and if it continues it will eventually wind up in our hands to do something about it. "Forgive them pops, for they knows not what the fuck they does."
@JackPedigo -- Question for you. Where we are, rainwater harvesting is sketchy at best and usually an exercise in futility. Here we are on a well, but there is some concern about the aquifers drying up. Anyway, I know some areas have laws in place regarding harvesting rainwater. Are you in an area where there is no problem with it? Oops, another question: What, if anything, do you do in terms of treating the water you trap?
By the way, I've sailed past your little island several times on my trips between Vancouver and Seattle. Wish I could be back up there.
The human race has to do something. The benefits/attributes won't be felt for decades but we need to pursue this. I don't even have kids but the future of humanity is partly dependent upon addressing this now. It's selfish and short sighted not to. Anyone who doesn't agree doesn't respect our long term survival.
KevinMR
Level 7
Feb 10, 2018
1
I hear the word "sustainability" a lot but it has become a feel-good buzz word and few actually know what it means. A partner in the firm I once worked said he hears "sustainable" and thinks "stagnation".
There should be a stipulation that requires all revenue raised from the tax must go toward growing renewable energy production.
RoboGraham
Level 8
Feb 10, 2018
2
Things like that were tried at the last vote. Industries found loopholes that saved them millions of dollars in taxes. It should be a tax, pure and simple, and the money could be used for things as education (which is in short supply because of the increasing cost of educating non-English speaking students and their parents).
A carbon tax puts the burden for cleaning up on the entity that makes the mess. We all have a stake in clean air. Nobody should have a pass on keeping it clean. The tax is an expense to the polluter and can be passed along to the end consumer of the product. Tax receipts should be allocated by the state to cleanup efforts and technology development which reduces our overall carbon footprint.
Dwight
Level 7
Feb 10, 2018
2
I think this qualifies as negative reinforcement conditioning, a light punishment for negligence to companies that don’t use ideal methods of limiting emissions. It may be slightly effective, but I think coupling it with positive reinforcement, like using the carbon tax funds to fund clean energy usage/production methods, would be even more effective at lowering carbon emissions.
Funandfondles
Level 6
Feb 10, 2018
0
Australia tried one and achieved a 1.4% drop in emissions over twelve months. The scheme was abolished by a conservative government after two years of existence citing rising power prices. Two years after the tax's abolition emissions were rising rapidly and prices had doubled. The evidence suggests that a carbon tax is effective in reducing emissions in the power sector and not necessarily coupled to price increases. The tax did include a price increase offset for lower income households, which indicates that some price increase was expected.
RobAnybody
Level 7
Feb 10, 2018
0
It has worked in Canada and was implemented under a conservative Prim Minister.
Carbon tax is not a new concept, and is mandated on a federal level. it has its own mini 'stock exchange' where carbon credits can be bought and sold.
for example, a power company is given X # of credits per year, they use Y. if Y us greater than X, they buy from the exchange. if less, they can sell. idle land such as woods, forests, etc can be given credits to landowners to sell on the exchange.
This prompted a lot of coal fired power plants to upgrade their aystems, increasing efficiency and adding carbon scrubbers to reduce the co2 released into the atmosphere. this carbon market and regulation has prevented literally billions of TONS of co2 from going into the atmosphere. for the enviromemt, this has been a huge success. for people who pay electric bills to companies w coal fired power plants, the cost of kWh has risen overall slightly (outside of inflation and other costs), but the added cost is well worth the few bucks more on the bill.
tscrib101
Level 5
Feb 10, 2018
0
@Akfishlady I don't understand why so many refuse to see taxes as something that benefits all of us including them. So many times I have read those most opposed to taxes often have the highest benefits from government subsidies. Healthcare is a prime example; no taxes for health care but when one needs it one uses the emergency room plan and often end up going bankrupt trying to pay the fees. What is the matter with people?
@Akfishlady I live near the Canadian border. There is a Trader Joe's in Bellingham some 20 miles from the border. On weekends the parking lot has mostly Canadian plates.
There is a little know, odd place known as Point Roberts [en.wikipedia.org] They have 3 gas station and 2 stores. It is an easy border for Canadians to get cheap gas and milk.
@Akfishlady I have friends there. They are dual citizens and members of FFRF (they attend all the conventions and that is how I met them), the Humanists, Center for Inquiry and other non-religious groups. They are also very active in the "burning man" festival.
Hi, I live in Lawrence. I would love for the people that profit from doing things that put carbon in the air to pay a tax. I do not see it happening with this gov. and the KS legislators that are not from our area. The air belongs to everyone and is not owned. It should not be free to ruin the air as a resource.
alanalorie
Level 7
Feb 28, 2018
0
Thank you for posting this.
This was tried a couple of years ago but failed and rightly so. It was so flawed that Boeing signed on because it would save them millions of dollars in taxes. It was estimated it would cost the state over 100 million in lost tax revenue. People in our county (San Juan) really pushed for it but, like so many progressive sounding ideas they didn't bother looking at the fine print. The governor wants it but the legislature is concerned it would raise the price of gas too much. Now we have a Democratic legislature things might change.
I have a PriusC and see massive pickups and SUV's idling at parking lots and ferry terminals. They are the first ones to complain when the price of gas goes up but the state and environment must stop subsidizing their stupidity and greed. In the end it always boils down to the individual.
JackPedigo
Level 9
Feb 10, 2018
1
Forget the tax! Just modify our energy sources already! Get these fossil fuel companies to put our money into alternative energy sources or take them over so we can use our money they get wisely.
William_Mary
Level 8
Feb 10, 2018
1
how would you force a company to act in a way that makes it obsolete?
I agree with the need to incentivise the fuel companies to expand their focus, But you risk becoming a totalitarian dictatorship when you say Force them to develop X and Take Over the companies. The U.S. might not be the best, but it could get a whole lot worse if we let it
@DobbinPitch The state (us) has the obligation to promote (not force) things that ultimately benefit the state (us). People are naturally selfish and it takes group think to modify that selfishness. That is what our political leaders are supposed to do. Find ways that benefit not just a few. Our state mostly gets it, where others (and the Feds) don't.
@JackPedigo agreed, but there is a line between encouragement and coercion. If we allow it, our government can do whatever it wants, so it's up to us as a collective to act rationally. Personally I feel that polluters should be required by law to reduce as much as they can, and just like having city water run yo your rural home, the government pays for the up front expense but then a lien gets put on that business that must be paid on monthly until the debt is paid. And those payments get made post profit reports, not built in to customer expense in order to protect the margins. Sorry, mister polluter, this is the price of doing business
@JackPedigo with legislation taking away our tax dollars in subsidies could be a start. Disallowing foreign companies that have continuously created spills while avoiding safely measures causing deaths in some cases to operate here. Which can open jobs locally performing in a more environmentally safe and cleaner manor within states. Pipelines from Canada risking the same as above. Profits can then gradually be moved towards alternative energy.
@Stevil with legislation taking away our tax dollars in subsidies could be a start. Disallowing foreign companies that have continuously created spills while avoiding safely measures causing deaths in some cases to operate here. Which can open jobs locally performing in a more environmentally safe and cleaner manor within states. Pipelines from Canada risking the same as above. Profits can then gradually be moved towards alternative energy. Yes, I'm more in line with the socialistic aspect of natural resources to be used as job creation in the areas they are. Over large corporations miking society to profit from and destroy the enviornment.
@William_Mary Good in theory but it has never worked. Again, a complicated issue with too many simplistic answers. Where I live the big issue are tankers. One spill could devastate the whole ecosystem. Things are complicated by the fact 2 countries (U.S. and Canada are involved. There is constant pressure to increase shipping and lots of counter groups and actions barely slow the process. Money, money and more money grease the palms of the politicians.
@DobbinPitch I agree but the reality of industry running the show makes that difficult. We do what we can and this bill may be a start.
@JackPedigo yeah, industry running the show is never a good idea
@JackPedigo there in is the problem? In pretty much every aspect of capitalism and neo liberalism today. We need to start thinking differently to rid us of the criminals in government and corporations. Are they really just simplistic answers that can't work, or are they more in lines of the dividing propaganda speak used against any socialist government that has had the global empire oppressing and interfering with their ability to exist?
Renewable energy is the answer. Don't tax the poor who struggle to pay power bills
Babyseal
Level 6
Feb 10, 2018
1
@Akfishlady Thank you
with a fucking idiot trump at the helm not giving a flying fuck, i can't see this working.
LeighShelton
Level 8
Feb 10, 2018
0
He is still going on with clean coal.
a contradiction in terms though I have no doubt as we rape the planet more and get more desperate any and all resources will be found and taken where ever they are. this trump however just doesn't care as long as he gets famous or infamous. I don't think he means great again. I think he means greater than any other as the country psychopath business man he is.
Carbon Tax is a well written policy that will benefit all except the heavy polluters
GreenAtheist
Level 8
Feb 10, 2018
0
It essentially fines the producers and spends the money on schools. I doubt if it will deter polluters much and it seems to make more sense to fund clean energy projects with the money.
shockwaverider
Level 8
Feb 10, 2018
0
Taxation is theft
JoeMastle
Level 7
Feb 10, 2018
0
Then eschew all use of public goods. No road, rail, reticulated water, stable society, general education, private property, or breathable air for you.
Hate taxes? Hate government? Love guns? It's better in Somalia!
@RobAnybody do you really think that a carbon tax will stop these companies from leaving a carbon footprint? No! They just get to pay they government to look the other way while they make an even bigger footprint. And then they will just charge the people the difference. So in the end we the people are the ones getting screwed.
@JoeMastle The evidence suggest that you are wrong
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