In view of the burgeoning consciousness that men are not welcome, or free to impose their will upon women, how would you propose we henceforth greet (or relate to) one another when there is no established relationship for precedent, or if there is, it's a casual or business one?
I've been thinking about this, prompted by the "news" that keeps coming out about sexual harassment, inappropriate touching, etc. Do we shake hands? Bump fists? Or...?
Personally, I like the Japanese method of a slight bow. What do you think?
I'm not a big fan of any type of impromptu touching. It's fine if there is some reason or applicable context but for the most part why can't people just keep their hands to themselves.
If that is an issue, I would like to not work with that person.
Unfortunately, it's often not that simple.
@Condor5 well, you can always do this
[media.giphy.com]
-- Oh! He assaulted me!
-- She was trying to grope me!
I am not welcome somewhere? Since when has that been the case?
In any case I don't exactly work with a lot of women but the few times I do I just limit physical contact to shaking hands the same way I deal with men.
Have you been imposing your will upon women?
@Condor5 I can't even impose my will on the racoon who feasts on my trash can. If I could I would make him bother someone else.
@engineer_in_nj damn coons. I had a run-in with one a few years back. Nasty little furballs, I tell ya. Best I can advise is keep a long-handled shovel at hand.
Why is this even an issue?
It depends on context surely. In a business setting, and if being formally introduced, a brief handshake is in order. In a casual situation I will just say "Hi". In an intimate situation always let the woman think she is in charge.
I do understand the confusion, although I'm not so much touched by it. Apparently, my behavior is not seen as inappropriate, although I love to charm the ladies , even at my age. In the nineteenth century people, especially in the higher classes were educated in etiquette. There was distance, but there was consensus about how men and women had to act towards each other. Realizing that it was a time that there was also consensus about the fact that women in general were still not seen as valuable and intelligent as men. Women took care of the household, bore children and did arts. That was before women were allowed to vote, and go to college.
Since than the emancipation kicked in. Women developed to a new consciousness, while the men were left behind in this development. But there was, and still is, the mating process where male and female approach each other, essentially to mate but, as being a higher form of animal, we call it the process of seeking a partner to bond for love or to bond for economic reasons. Women, later helped by the discovery of the pill, developed on to the equal self-conscious beings that they are now and that they should be. Above that, the western society has developed itself to an over-sexed society by the commerce that has discovered the financial benefits of encouraging that development. The abuse of power in whatever area of society went on (I don't think that the abusive behavior of Harvey Weinstein was so unique. The #metoo movement indeed showed that too), suggesting that it is relatively recent. I don't believe that actually. This kind of abuse of power is of all times. But it is not just one-sided. I know that in showbiz, it was general knowledge that women that wanted an important part in some production, not seldom were willing to seduce the producer and share his bed with him, to get the benefits they were aiming at. It was a kind of a game that was played by both for mutual benefits. Because of the fact that power corrupts, the one that really was able to continue that behavior were the ones in power. They did not make distinction between the willing and the ones that did not offer themselves. That was where the abuse took place.
But, apart from abuse, in the meantime, the signals for communicating verbally and physically have blurred. On one side nothing has changed, so when the youngsters go to the discotheque, dancing, or whatever these institutes are called nowadays, they both still use the same signals as before, but I think that the guys are taking the main risk, because women can easily accuse them of abuse, and often nobody can proof otherwise. I think that there might be a problem and I'm not sure that such will easily resolve. We live in an accusing society, which especially can be a problem when someone thinks he or she can gain profit of it.
At least I'm very curious how things will develop from now on.
@SassyLady Why doesn't that surprise me. But in this case it is not just the rape. It's more the general behavior from powerful men towards women and the casualness that these men use their power. I'm glad women have created momentum to raise to a more equal level than a beauty with whom men can do as they like. Most of the time it will not be rape or an other criminal act that a guy can be charged with. No, it is general behavior that makes a woman feel uncomfortable. I have seen this too many times and it is more or less a culture of power. The women, that are still the social weaker party in this society that is still dominated by men, are still the victim of that in more than those 2% you mention .
Good topic perhaps over “hyped” by media, still worth kicking around. I understand the concerns of spreading flu, etc... don’t disagree, guess I’ve been fortunate in avoiding illnesses, even though I frequent local pubs greet people with hand shakes, fist bumps, hugs n kisses.
I find a gentle hand shake is well received by most folks... which brings the question of “gentle hand shake”.
Is it ever necessary to squeeze the shit out of another’s hand when meeting/greeting someone for the first (2nd, 3rd) time ?
I personally dislike the “hard hand shake”... firm is ok, but I prefer a gentle hand shake from men or women... a hand shake is a gesture of peace, nothing to do with masculinity or femininity. This could have been a Seinfeld or a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode... maybe.
Seinfeld, right. Or, yeah, even Curb. Great episode for Curb, huh?
I like a nice firm handshake from a man. If I get a soft wimpy one, it doesn't impress me.
I don't understand why this is so confusing. Just say "hello"...?
I'm good with that.
Here on Lopez everyone is a huger, male, female friends or not. when they pat your butt then you have to start worrying.
Shaking hands is professional however, think Bob Dole. Not everyone is able or wants to; it is flu season and some people have arthritis in their hands. I like the idea of bowing, but in the US that could come off very weird. However, it is never wrong to fall back on cultural norms. In the US go for a handshake, even if they deflect you won't be wrong. Fist bump among friends. Keep your eyes mostly on the face of the person you are greeting. When in doubt, ask.
@orange_girl yes, the nod is good.
Shaking hands and saying "hello" still works.
It really doesn't need to be that complicated.
Just saying hello without any physical contact at all should work just fine and get a conversation started if that is what someone wants.
Amen, I'm 60 years old and have never had a problem being respectful to a women whether or not I knew her. I'm not afraid to shake hands with or tip my hat to a woman.