Nice! It's hard for me to imagine myself being less orderly, but maybe so...

What if? All that energy goes into the things that eat you?

@skado haha, I can relate to that sentiment as well. On the flip side, I'm a nurse that works with cancer patients, and let me tell you there is a whole lotta God in cancer care. I have no problem respecting other's choice of comfort and will happily sit and pray with them when requested and humbly accept their praising God for providing them with such stellar care. ?

@Beowulfsfriend in the African bush, that's exactly what happens. They set their dead out to be handled by nature. No burials or burning. Just cosmic repurposing.

@Amzungu2 certain cultures, Zoroastrian in Iran used to, would put the bodies on carved rocks with openings for the bones to fall through and then when all the flesh was gone the bones would be ground up, baked in bread, and feed to more birds.

@Amzungu2
I know they appreciate you. Kindness is never inappropriate, especially toward those who are suffering.

@skado No truer words...

"There are other reasons for their metaphysical thinking. "

This is what I'm looking for. What are the possible reasons for adopting a worldview-level assumption, other than that we have adequate evidence? Why not just wait until the evidence is solid?

@skado Can’t you lean heavily toward a conjecture without having absolutely solid proof? If no one ever thought about or discussed such things, then there would never be proof.

When Einstein was working on his revolutionary ideas, it must have seemed absolutely ridiculous to many. After all, there was scant evidence and no proof at all, but that didn’t deter Einstein. As for me, when eminent physicists such as Max Planck write about Universal Consciousness, I will read with rapt attention and try to grasp the concept.

If you want to see the evidence look at the books I mentioned in that other response. There are various deep questions that can not be answered from a materialist perspective but which are easily explained from the perspective of Universal Consciousness, or as Taylor calls it, Panspiritism.

@WilliamFleming

“Can’t you lean heavily toward a conjecture without having absolutely solid proof?”

Of course we are free to do that, but I think it’s useful to examine our motivations for going out on that limb. It’s not as secure as well-established science, and I don’t see any particular need to know. It’s plenty interesting to read about and think about, but I don’t see how it might affect my life, one way or the other. Why should I prefer one stance over another, if we don’t reliably know yet?

“If no one ever thought about or discussed such things, then there would never be proof.”

Well, if no one did, yes, but for the most part, those need to be professional scientists. It’s too late in my life to study climate science. I’m at the mercy of the professionals; if 97% of professional climate scientists start saying climate change is no longer a problem, I’ll take their word for it. But since they’re saying the opposite, I have to accept their word just as readily, even though that conclusion is much less comfortable for me. I can’t rely on my own judgement for that because I don’t have the required training or experience.

If we amateurs (I’m making assumptions; you may be a professional scientist, but I’m not) want to follow the developments and stay informed on cutting edge science, that’s cool, but if we then incorporate untested hypotheses into our working worldview, either consciously or otherwise, we would do well, I think, to examine the motivation to do that. Not to say that any particular motivation is wrong or right, but that it is useful to know which one motivates that choice. Einstein got paid to do what he did; why should I prefer one outcome over another, as long as the professionals have determined it is reliably true? If it hasn’t been determined, why shouldn’t I wait until it has, before relying on it?

“If you want to see the evidence look at the books I mentioned in that other response.”

Thanks, I wasn’t asking to see the evidence, though I might look at it later, I was just asking for the reason we would adopt ideas whose creators acknowledge aren’t well-established. It shouldn’t matter how appealing the ideas are to us amateurs, they’re either established or they’re not. Why wouldn’t we want to let the pros finish their work before we start incorporating those ideas into maps we guide our lives by?

I’m reasonably familiar with Sheldrake. I scanned a few aticles about the other two. They all seem to be doing a similar thing; they’re calling for studies to be done in areas that they are convinced will produce useful science, but which the overwhelming majority of the scientific community thinks is a dead end. All revolutionary science initially faces resistence; It’s how science works. Science needs to be slow and difficult. If their ideas have merit it will eventually be proven. In the meanwhile, why should anyone jump on an unproven bandwagon?

“There are various deep questions that can not be answered from a materialist perspective but which are easily explained from the perspective of Universal Consciousness, or as Taylor calls it, Panspiritism.”

Could you give me an example of one of these questions, and why we need to know right now?

@skado I don’t think that the concept of Universal Consciousness is the sort of thing that science, in its current form, is capable of analyzing. It is a metaphysical concept that does not lend itself to testing in a laboratory. I think the reason is that the concept is not about objective reality but rather it concerns personal identity and spirituality, as well as the nature of ultimate reality outside the world of our everyday experience.

To someone bent on having a glorious eternal life in heaven as a separate ego, Universal Consciousness offers scant consolation. Look at it this way: We expect that when we die others will live on, and that the chain of life will continue. If the universe itself has conscious awareness, that is all that matters—we can just look at our identity as part of greater reality rather than just as a human body.

People, even on this forum, keep saying that our sense of conscious awareness and free will is nothing but an illusion, and I tend to agree. It is impossible to see how a machine-like mass of flesh could be conscious and exercise free will, no matter how many neurons are firing. It is one of those deep, hard problems that has no solution under a materialist perspective, but if reality itself is conscious and has free will, then the problem dissolves.

All of this is just a glimmer of insight based mainly on intuition. I certainly don’t understand Ultimate Reality because that is a very deep and impenetrable mystery. But IMO no one else understands either, and in particular, the materialist approach dies not even begin to provide answers.

I agree with you in one way. Our human model of reality as matter moving through space and time is necessary for everyday functioning and survival, and all of us are tethered to that model most of the time—after all, we have these bodies to look after. But I enjoy thinking about the big picture part of the time—I get a feeling of intense alertness, of being poised on the edge of something unbelievably astounding. There is great value to life!

@WilliamFleming
“It is one of those deep, hard problems that has no solution under a materialist perspective, but if reality itself is conscious and has free will, then the problem dissolves.”

I can see that it might be a tantalizing curiosity, but why is it a problem? What’s pressing us to come up with a solution?

@skado I don’t know why—I just want to know.

Maybe if the spiritual paradigm becomes predominant people will be happier and there’ll be less conflict.

Yeah, growing old has it's drawbacks for sure. I experienced the death of spouse at age 20, and the death of my oldest l son when I was 43. This year i lost my dad. We had been estranged for many years, but I had hopes of seeing him again one day...so I am a half centurian, batttered and bruised, but still kicking...I often wish that I had died young..

No, I’m not wanting something else, but I know a lot of people do, and I can have compassion for that. I feel the same as you; this is it. May as well make the most of it.