I think it's only the beginning. And thank goodness. All those #metoos only represent the women who are willing to admit to it.
Its funny how the preditor would prance around the victoms looking for the next moment to make their move. In their feable mind they thought no one would ever speak up or come forward with it and talk about it to others. Look what happened to bill Clinton. Your going to get found out so what the hell are you thinking about?
#MeToo is important for predatory behavior to change. Sexual harassment is everything from verbal to physical attention, without consent. If it makes her uncomfortable, it went beyond flirting.
@Steve32867 - So, I'm curious to know, where is the line drawn between flirting and harassment? Is it a general rule, or different for each person?
@Hominid If you're working with someone, you shouldn't be flirting with them. Easy peasy.
@Lysistrata - Pfff. It's how I met my wife.
How far are you going to take it @Steve32867? Now all of a sudden men require ESP to properly chat up a woman, lest she be offended by something as harmless as a wink? It's not entirely up to us to navigate this minefield of sensitive people who scream bloody murder at the smallest things. My point is that the proper approach to this subject is not entirely defined by the sensitivities of the other person, as we know there are a lot of unbalanced and hyper sensitive people out there. And Trump has nothing to do with this conversation. He's a pig; we all know that.
@witchymom - That's sage advice for young, unmarried men who are looking to hook up. There are other dynamics to also consider, such as an office setting where most, if not all people are married, many with children. In this scenario, I've witnessed, and been part of, harmless flirting amongst co-workers. No harm, no foul. Clothes and hair were often complimented by both sexes - "Hey Jim, I like your hair long" Charise says to me. "Hey Kathy, great haircut!" says Trevor. Even the guys would compliment each other on such things. The receptionist on the main floor would boost a saleman's ego just before an important meeting with "Go get'm sexy". It was all done without ulterior motives; it's just the way mature people interact that trust each other.
@wCrimson67 - yes, trust is at the core for sure. I brought up my office situation because it sounds like so many scenarios brought up here are office situations as well, where something went south... a misunderstanding; an accusation; a lawsuit...... It's why I'm so gobsmacked at the minefield it has become. Interactions are now having to become so sterile. It's a shame really.
I think it’s a good thing that women are speaking out. I don’t think it’s a good thing that men are being crucified for an accusation.
Sexual harassment: sexualizing the work place or making someone’s job dependent upon sexual favors.
In part. Advances after it was made clear such advances are not wanted regardless of the job security is also harassment. People will make a pass to see if someone is interested. Talking would be nicer and far more refreshing but, eh... people are strange. However taking no for an answer should be a no brainer. To constantly be hit on by someone you turned down several times over certainly qualifies.
it goes beyond the workplace
I stand corrected. No should just be no. @AmyLF
More later if I have time and care enough, but few thoughts
MeToo is necessary IMO, every woman I know has been touched sexually in ways she didn't want. I'm not talking about standing too close in a crowd, intentionally touching someone who doesn't want to be touched is wrong and doubly wrong if it's sexual.
Just like every social movement in human history, the pendulum has swung a little too far in a couple of instances. Plus overall metoo rarely seems concerned with male victims, talking about males who have been molested in no way distracts from females being assaulted.
BTW METOO, now I'm comfortable with everything that happened but guys know you're not alone and should be free to speak out, cry, rage... Seriously, if you were molested as a child or even by a spouse, a stranger, you are not alone. PLEASE Get professional help if you haven't.
Every single guy doesn't want to fuck you. Last week, a dog I see at the park with a guy starts freaking...I carry treats I've never seen the woman, but HER HUSBAND, HER HUSBAND HER HUSBAND. Literally three times in a minute she stares me down and lets me know SHE IS OFF LIMITS! LOL, your dog reacted to me and I know your hubbie's name, CHILL. Very very minor example, but confirmation bias is strong in all humans. That creepy guy you're sure is hitting on you might be a creepy guy, or he could just be a natural extrovert or not even notice you.
I support MeToo and we need to annihilate predators who are almost always men.
Al Franken was railroaded out of office and it's not right! I'm still waiting for someone to stand up and say, " I have here a list of 200 sexual abusers right here in the government ".
Then we'll have the House Committee on Un-American Sexual Activity. " Are you now or have you ever been a sexual predator"? " Do you know any sexual predators '?
A social movement is becoming a political weapon and we'll all regret it.
I don't like the movement. There are enough reasons in life to avoid love entirely so lets create a few more. I have been avoiding women at work entirely for 18 years now, long before #MeToo. If I don't avoid you watch out because dark sarcasm is coming next.
I don't by the white male privilege crap. Women control Civil Court.
I do think feeling able to tell one’s story and air injuries is a valuable thing for everyone. #metoo provides a platform to call awareness of a problem which has plaqued us too long: So long that even good men are unaware of how our privilege affects attitude and assumptions. This awareness gives us an opportunity to grow and be better.
Women have lessons to learn from these claims as well. While juvenile displays of sexual desire may be annoying, unwanted, or distracting they are not of the same cloth as rape or discrimination. Ending careers of men who are of good will but have acted in juvenile fashion, at times, is neither productive or fair. It’s appropriate to quarantine those accused, until an accusers claim can be weighed, but not to destroy them based on accusations alone.
It’s also important to acknowledge that men are sometimes harassed and objectified as well. We are also discriminated against by some female dominated environments. Dating and mating is also still more expensive for men than women, since men are expected to pay for most activities (certainly in the beginning phase) and physical adornments (like rings or make-up during periods when women are not earning money to contribute). These things affect attitudes toward equal pay so maybe gender expectations should be more fully re-evaluated?
The past 50+ years have created many horrendous gender and social roles, assumptions, and expectations that this moment allows us to evaluate. Whatever advances those conversations is useful. Few advancements have ever been made without many injustices accompanying them so we need to proceed as cautiously as possible.
The movement would be legitimate if it was not political, and not coordinated by rabid (foaming at the mouth rabid) social justice warriors. Pursue alleged offenders with legal precedent. Keep the man-organ and sex haters away from the cameras and microphones. Or (here is an idea) give the men and women who are accused their day in court. If the allegations are deliberately falsified...and the accused is found not guilty...and/or the case is thrown out? The person/group that had levied the charges should be sued no less than $100 million...with an additional $100 million for every other specific falsehood the accused has been libeled with.
Mom's. Its your fault.
Why are you sending defenseless daughters out into the world? You went through it yet you didn't learn anything from the experience or if you did you didn't pass that information on to your daughter? Who does that? No verbal or physical weapons provided to them? As in, this is what some men do, here is a way to defend yourself. Why don't you mother's enroll your daughters in a self defense classes where they can get use to kneeing a man in the balls?
They are called the Facts of Life. Teach them.
If a man is close enough to grab your boob your close enough to put your knee in his balls. If you do that and he and every man he knows will never do that to you again.
If a man says something you don't like have a comeback ready.
Stop being a victim and become the confident strong woman your supposed to be.
Yes you will be nervous the first time you try kneeing some dick in the balls but you won't be the second time.
It's happens a lot, take action. It's nothing to be traumatized about and have it ruin your whole life.
Yes, you should teach your daughter to be strong. But why should you not also teach your sons not be an asshole? That is the point of the #MeToo movement. We should NOT have to suffer just because men and boys are not held to the same standard that girls and women are. Girls are punished for the behavior that boys are allowed to get away with until they figure out on their own they shouldn't do...
I have a daughter. She's 19 this year. I have taught her how to be a strong, respectful, independent woman. I have also taught her not to accept anything less than respectful behavior from the men in her life. I know that should she have any sons, she will raise them to be respectful, well behaved, strong, independent men.
@BarbaraParks huh? Yes I read the standard #metoo pamphlet.
Why are passing your responsibility off onto someone else? You, me, no one can control everyone else. You say you taught your daughter to be strong. Does that mean anything? Seriously, What does that mean? Did you actually teach her how to be strong? How to defend herself? Did you teach her to walk away in a huff? Is walking away with her held up high really being strong? Did you teach her how to knee a touchy man in the balls to teach HIM proper respect?
Men never "figure it out on their own" and isn't that the whole problem and why #metoo exists?
While you are still making the terrible mistake of teaching your daughter to be respectful some judge in Alabama is pushing her head down onto his lap in the parking lot of a Taco Bell.
@Anonbene Nice of you to assume the meaning of my words. Yes, I did teach her how to handle a hand gun, a knife, and self defense. I taught her how to be aware of her surroundings at all times, recognize threats, and count exits. I taught her how to make strong eye contact, connect with people in her surroundings, and diffuse situations with body language. And you know what? It's fucking ridiculous that we have to teach them these things and they still might end up assaulted!
Take some responsibility and man up. Don't stand idly by and ignore bullshit when you see it. Say something when someone is being inappropriate, even in a small way. Offer to walk with people out to their car at night if you're with friends or co-workers, male or female. Call them out on it when you see kids/teens acting like jerks. Tell your buddy not to be an asshole when he makes a lewd remark about anyone, even if no one else can hear him.
Our culture will not change until we make it so. Every one of us is responsible for our apathy or our actions.
@witchymom Well said. I'm sorry your daughter went through that trauma.
@witchymom i didn't imply that and why did you change the subject? The subject on this thread you started is harassment and how to combat I'll mannered men.
Seriously, why did you change the subject of your own thread? Isn't that what christians that are caught in an indefensible position do?
I'm very glad that you did what you say you did for your daughter and I wish all mom's would do the same.
But now that you brought it up.
Yes I was taught to man up and I taught my son's to man up and all of us men have gotten our asses kicked and lots of men have been raped by bigger stronger men. What advice would you give to your husband or son that have been beaten or raped?
I would love to hear your definition of what you think "man up" means.
Sexual harassment? A harem of women wanting my body. Me too? That's a good thing, I don't want to be left out.
Bit pointless if the police are not involved and no one gets convicted
For rape, assault, and exploitation, etc. they should be convicted. This is about the entitlement of those in a position of power and authority to humiliate, belittle, and control subordinates and it has to stop.