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why are agnostics afraid of using the word atheist?

atheism deals with a belief question, not a knowledge question, if you have no knowledge or think knowledge of gods cannot be obtained, then a rational person also has no belief in said gods. you can be an atheist agnostic. what you cannot do is skip out on answering a belief question, with a knowledge answer. thats just avoiding the question... i have run into a few on here that insist on the god tards propaganda when it comes to what an atheist is as well, by demanding its saying there are no gods. wrong. that is a statement that takes it to the next level of explaining why one does not have a god belief. etc. some dictionaries, also try to distort what an atheist is, by stating its the denial of a god. this is also theist propaganda, attempting to give credibility to the god fantasy. until they provide empirical evidence of any gods existing, there is no god to deny. atheism is the lack of a god belief.. anti theist, is the view that religion causes harm and they are against religion. so please agnostic atheist stop being bullied into a position because god believers like to lie and distort information.

MichaelSpinler 8 Oct 28
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34 comments (26 - 34)

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1

I think this issue is strongly tied to which definitions each one of us abides by; that is, with which definitions we most strongly agree. I also wonder if some of this controversy is tied to the use of "agnostic" as a generic term, rather than a term specific to religion.

Words mean what the dictionaries say they mean not what we think they mean otherwise I can pay you in cents not dollars because I've decided those terms mean whatever I choose them to mean. The fact is any decent dictionary states that an atheist doesn't believe god claims & an agnostic doesn't know if a god exists. Belief & knowledge are not the same thing & if you think you can redefine words to suit your purpose you are going to get into a lot of arguments when most dictionaries say something else.

@Paul
[en.oxforddictionaries.com]

1

'Why are agnostics afraid of using the word atheist?"

I think Pascal's Wager has a lot to do with it. Like most people, as a child I was asked 'What if there is a hell?' & at such an early age my unreflective thought was 'Yeah MAYBE that's true so maybe i should take this more seriously!' & that's the 'mind trap I think the majority of agnostics are stuck in - they haven't stopped to ask themselves 'But hang on... if hell is just a lie created to indoctrinate trusting young minds into playing it safe, isn't a claim like eternal hell EXACTLY the sort of lie or perhaps just a rumor which will catch undecided people like me out?' - Of course few agnostics like to admit to themselves that this is the reason why they are undecided but why else would they be when there's really no good reason what so ever to think there might be some god?

'Atheism deals with a belief question, not a knowledge question, if you have no knowledge or think knowledge of gods cannot be obtained, then a rational person also has no belief in said gods.'

Ah it's a little bit more complicated than that if you think about it. Remember that agnosticism relates to not knowing but not necessarily not believing. As an analogy I may not know if there's life elsewhere in our solar system none the less I may believe that it's there anyway regardless of this (although it would make a lot more sense to say 'I don't know therefore I cannot believe there IS which isn't the same as saying there isn't is it?) Most agnostics believe the lie they've been told that atheism = saying no god exist but in truth it's simply saying ' don't believe there is a god.' Even if an atheist denies the existence of all gods claimed to exist they STILL fit the true definition: an unbeliever, regardless of that fact.

"you can be an atheist agnostic. what you cannot do is skip out on answering a belief question, with a knowledge answer. thats just avoiding the question..."

EXACTLY! Saying 'I don't know' is pretending the issue being examined was whether you KNOW if some god exists & agnostics act as if it was when it wasn't. It's asking if you believe there is one & that's something every thinking person knows. I have no idea if there's life elsewhere in our solar system - none at all because it's perfectly possible that there is OR isn't but if someone asks me if I BELIEVE there is I either do or I don't if I hear a claim that there is life there. The same is true of all god claims: people forget they are claims & a claim is either believed or it isn't at any given moment. Perhaps some moments you believe & therefore at that time you are a theist even if it's only nominally & at other times you may not & at those moments you are nominally an atheist. There really is no third way but you can pretend that there is.

"I have run into a few on here that insist on the god tards propaganda when it comes to what an atheist is as well, by demanding its saying there are no gods. wrong. that is a statement that takes it to the next level of explaining why one does not have a god belief. etc."

I couldn't agree more!

"some dictionaries, also try to distort what an atheist is, by stating its the denial of a god. this is also theist propaganda, attempting to give credibility to the god fantasy. until they provide empirical evidence of any gods existing, there is no god to deny."

Yep! I've even seen some try to fudge the issue by saying an atheist is someone who considers all gods to be man-made but even that's wrong! As an unbeliever myself I think it's perfectly possible that some god beliefs came about accidently & weren't necessarily invented as such just a misconstrual of phenomena like thunder, lightning & volcanoes etc...

"atheism is the lack of a god belief..."

Not quite. Babies aren't atheists any more than they are Christians or Jews. They aren't anything really. An atheist is someone old enough to understand god claims who remains unconvinced for whatever reason. Babies can't do that can they?

"anti theist, is the view that religion causes harm and they are against religion."

Yes but I don't know if the world would definitely be a better place without it or not (however I suspect it would though!)

"so please agnostic atheist stop being bullied into a position because god believers like to lie and distort information."

Yes. It's ironic that atheists pay more attention to the 8th commandment than many theists do when it comes to (mis)representing atheism. 'Thou shalt not bear false witness!' L.O.L!

Paul Level 5 Oct 28, 2017
1

I have the same question. An atheist is simply someone who does not affirm, "There is at least one god." I should think that that condition encompasses the majority of the agnostics on this site. Likewise, a goodly number (quite possibly a majority) of the atheists on this site don't believe in any god precisely because the answer to the question of the existence or non-existence of a god is inherently unknowable. Wherever that is the reason for that person's atheism, then that is also agnosticism. Of course, not all atheists are agnostics. Some atheists claim 100% certainty, but that isn't most of us. And, of course, not all agnostics are atheists. Some agnostics still believe in a god or gods; there are even agnostic Christians, i.e. those who accept that they don't know that God exists but who embrace His existence on faith alone. But there are a very large number of agnostic atheists, some of whom shy away from the word "atheist" either because they don't know what it means or because they don't want to deal with the social stigma attached to the word, because, rightly or wrongly, agnostic atheists under the name "agnostics" alone get less grief from the theists. Ironically, as an agnostic atheist, that's the reason I started identifying as an atheist soon after my deconversion. I started initially by calling myself an "agnostic" because it seemed to me it was more specific, but too many people don't understand what an agnostic is. It's not just that I don't know whether there are any gods -- that's wishy-washy -- No, it's that I can't know and nobody else can, either. So whatever fairy tale a civilization makes up to describe a god or gods, it's a work of fiction based on nothing but their own imagination. Then, after a couple months of calling myself an agnostic, I got tired of explaining that agnosticism wasn't a belief halfway between God and no-God, but that it is a very sound basis for atheism. So then I said, "Fine, I'm an atheist. At least you have a better idea what that is."

I totally agree with what you have written, but I trouble understanding your initial sentence ‘an atheist is someone who doesn’t affirm ‘there is at least one god”. In my view an atheist is someone who has a total lack of belief in any gods. Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Apologies for the semantics, it’s just the word ‘affirm’ sits weirdly with me.

What I was trying to say - evidently too awkwardly - is that atheism is logically the default belief position. The only people who aren't atheists are theists. You either believe in a god or you don't. Some agnostics dispute this, but with belief logic requires that there are only two positions: B or Not-B. You can be more or less confident about either proposition, but there's only the two. At any given moment you can't believe both B and Not-B.

1

because your one paragraph question is to long to read.....

i referring more to braking it up, i don't mind long articles it just makes it easier to read when you don't cram everything into one paragraph.

1

Who says that they are? I've been an agnostic all of my adult life, and have never had any hesitation in saying in conversation or discussion that I am also an atheist.

0

IT is clear that the term means different things to different people. You may believe you have the one true meaning, and that everyone must adhere to yours. This is called arrogance.
When speaking to others, I sometimes consider what my word choice will mean to them. This is called empathy. You might benefit from a healthy dose of that as well.

0

I would like to argue against the idea that agnostics are atheist pussies. Actually, I went from atheist to agnostic. I still don't believe in a God, but prefer to be identified as an agnostic. Never had a problem with being identified as an atheist, except the more I learnt, the more I realized there are too many unexplainable things, increasing my level of agnostism. I became more open to the possibility of God, not a kind preached by any religion, not an all powerful, all loving, omnipresent one. Just something, that could potentially answer what Science hasn't solved yet, what we don't know.

While talking about the origin of us, we can talk about evolution until it comes to a point when we can't answer how the first unicellular organism came into being. We don't know where life came from.

We can talk about natural selection by dismissing the mutations as random. Random? That's quite the opposite of certainty. Why did the first polar bear turn white? Why white? Why not blue or green? Why are there no green polar bears? Of course, they have less chances of survival and goes against the concept of natural selection, but how did the genes know to make a polar bear white and a leaf insect green? How did chameleons develop the mutation of adapting to the environment and not us? Camouflage can certainly be useful to a whole lot of species than just chameleons. Why any mutation ever occured is still something that we don't know.

While talking about the origin of the universe, we come to a point where we can't explain what caused the Big Bang, and whether there was a universe before this one as we currently know it. We don't know why matter won over anti-matter in the quark era.

In cosmology, we even have dark matter which is basically defined as an UNKNOWN form of energy which is hypothesized to permeate all of space, tending to accelerate the expansion of the universe.

95% of the ocean remains unexplored and we still need more research to confirm theories on the Bermuda Triangle and the Stonehenge.

"As for me, all I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates

Atheism is defined as the rejection of belief that any deities exist. A deity can defined as a supernatural being considered divine or sacred. Divine means Godlike and sacred means anything linked with God. And God can have various definitions such as the creator and ruler of the universe or a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature. As I cannot reject the belief of such a God due to aforementioned various unexplainable phenomena, I'd rather call myself an agnostic than atheist.

In the Dawkins's Scale, I went from 6-5, and then 5 to 4. And I think it's fair enough for people to consider themselves as a pure agnostic, if they really consider it to be an equiprobable scenario. However, these are the people who are the most unstable perhaps, just like Carbon atoms. The 4s are extremely vulnerable and energetic about getting to either extreme and therfore constantly jump back to 3 and forth to 5, and finally settle at 4. Sir, when the coin is tossed, it can still land sideways although it is highly improbable, there is indeed a 3rd option.

1.Strong theism, which asserts that the believer knows without a doubt there is a God.
2.De facto theism, where believers are not 100 percent sure that God exists but consider it very probable and live their lives as though he does.
3.Weak theism, where a believer isn't wholly certain but leans toward belief in a deity.
4.Pure agnostic or complete impartiality, where the likelihood of a god's existence is just as likely to be true or false.
5.Weak atheism, where an individual isn't certain whether God exists but is inclined toward skepticism.
6.De facto atheism, where a person is not wholly positive that God does not exist but considers it very improbable and lives his/her life as though there is no deity.
7.Strong atheists, who believe with 100 percent certainty that there is no deity.

I do understand that the difference between a belief question and a knowledge question. However, some people find it a hard time to lean towards either ways to properly answer to the belief question, the same way a child struggles to answer when he is asked if he loves her father or mother more? I guess it comes down to how a person sees the world. As long as one can't be certain about either extremes, one must allow the possibility of all levels of agnostism as well.

It's fair enough to call someone with a >50%,<100% certainty in the existence of God, an agnostic theist and someone with a >50%,<100% certainty in the lack of a God, an agnostic atheist. However, what would you call someone who is at exactly 50%? The question of what they believe in is simply not a question they can answer with a binary option. Although, if forced you might get an answer out of them leaning towards either sides, but this is simply an unreliable answer as their actual anwer has to do with the 50% dilemma. So, do you believe you like your father or mother more?

0

As an agnostic myself I would say I humble myself and say that some things are unknowable. Strong Ironclad scientific evidence cannot beyond the shadow of a doubt prove a great number of things. And I'm way cool with that

0

My understanding has always been an Agnostic believes there might be a God but doesn't believe in organized religion. An Atheist doesn't believe there is a God. It's definitely a stepping stone from belief in religion to non-belief.

No, an atheist lacks belief in gods. An agnostic believes that you cannot know with 100% certainty but can still lack a belief or have a belief. All agnostics are either atheists or theists, it isn't an independent position.

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