Actually, I'm glad they don't obey some of the words....such as stoning disobedient children...

Thoughtful criticism is exactly what I'm hoping to get when I post anything of a philosophical nature here. I appreciate your feedback. It's true. There's no way to know for certain what was on the mind of any writer who lived thousands of years ago. All I know is when I (and most members of this site) interpret religious texts literally, most of it seems unintelligible, or demonstrably wrong, or sometimes dangerous. At minimum, mostly useless. But when I look for passages that could have been created as metaphor, I am surprised by the picture that comes into focus.

The situation we find ourselves in is that about 80% of the world's human population claims to be religious, and probably the great majority of those take their scripture literally. I see this as a major contributing factor toward behavior that not only creates untold suffering and misery, but that literally threatens the survival of our species.

Abolishing religion is not a realistic possibility. And we really don't have time to wait for it to die. But... if there might happen to be a more benign interpretation of those words, maybe even a beneficial one, maybe even one that was arguably more true to the original intent... that could be very useful. The more I study the situation, the more evidence I find that such might be the case. If it turns out not to be the case, it would be pointless to pretend otherwise. But if it happens to be true, it would be a terrible shame not to make it known.

The "word" that I'm talking about here is not the written word in any book; it's the concept of truth as opposed to error, the concept of faithfulness to one's promises, and as you say, living up to the ideals we espouse.

@skado Another one of those what I am trying to say and what comes out is not exactly what I mean. I lumped the "word" into my whole premise that by not knowing what they meant by their language or use of words, images, markings, etc. pretty much anything we ascribe to the meaning is like Sci-Fi writing and like all writing we can choose the good or bad from the text.
Just taking the "word", I've thought for a while now the meaning may the mystical wonder we feel, see, sense with life and our connection to the natural universe. I know I have felt that deep inner peace and wonder with the universe around me. Thoughts are clear and the world is just quiet. I then wonder how did it ever get so convoluted to what we see today from many religious fanatics. Is there any way to get past it?

@silverotter11

I do think, as with any work of art, the viewer should have total freedom to interpret as is immediately meaningful to them, because it’s not a scientific document; it’s ancient literature. My personal take on fanaticism is... they are free to choose for themselves how they see things, but they are not free to choose for me how I see things, no matter how massively they outnumber me.
One thing I’ve noticed is that, over the span of my lifetime, my worldview has constantly evolved. If present me could bump into early me in a social setting somewhere, and strike up a conversation, I know I’d be sorely tempted to think, “That guy just doesn’t get it! I’m glad I have the Truth!” LOL! So I try to keep in mind that “understanding” is a fluid thing, not a static thing, and wherever a person is at a given moment may just be where they need to be in order to get to the next place they will be five minutes from now, and maybe there’s not really any “right” or “wrong” place to be. The best “place” to be (IMHO) is to be able to speak freely about your ponderings, and hear freely other people’s ponderings, and somehow find a way to be at peace with all of it.

@skado Do you have any photographs of your hot younger self? Pull 'em outta the draw an think about where the shot was taken. I think the core of us, at least for me, has not changed in that, the hypocrisy, racism, bigotry and misogyny may not have been fully formed at 11 or 12 but on some level I was aware and in all I did I looked to get away from it. I too am not concerned about others fanaticism unless they cross the street to mess with me, with that perspective it's easy to be at peace.
Instead of creating myths of a Jesus just LIVE your life with an open heart and mind and be an example, hopefully that will be enuff to get others to see the light.

@silverotter11
I think that's right. Through all the changes and development, there's a core "you" that is always trying to be the you that you know in your heart you are, and it consistently makes decisions in that direction, given the available information at the time.

Yes, by role model I don’t mean, in every case, modeling only the good, but a way to project all of human nature on a screen to be examined and learned from. Not to be taken as factual history.

@skado right, not for us, who know better, to take as factual history, but that does not apply to the intentions with which they were created.

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@genessa
Hard to know for certain what people were actually thinking two thousand years ago, but the scholars and scientists I respect most seem to suggest that mythology comes from the subconscious more than from any rational intentions. If that weren't the case, it would be hard to explain the similarities worldwide. I'm open to hearing about other hypotheses that are backed by serious studies. I just don't buy the idea that religions were created as some kind of conspiracy to "control the masses". I've not seen the evidence for that.

@skado some come from the subconscious. the ones written down, such as the ones in the bible, come from the subconscious, but all it takes is a glance at the begatting chapter to see that these things were intended to be taken literally (what can we learn, emotionally, from that nonstory?) the same is not true of fairy tales, but we're not talking about fairy tales -- at least you didn't mention fairy tales.

um... did i mention conspiracies or controlling the masses? did i even intimate anything like that? saying that the writers intended their work to be taken literally has nothing whatsoever to do with such conspiracies. geez. reading things into what i said, are we?

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@genessa
Dontcha just hate it when people do that? Sorry. But I didn't mention the Bible either. The subject of my post was mythology, not the entire Bible. Do you disagree that there is some mythology in the Bible, as well as a gazillion other things? I think the verse I quoted is mythology, never intended as a historical account of anything.

@skado sorry, but you DID mention the bible. "'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.'" is that not from someone's bible?

as far as i know ALL of the bible is mythological. which part were you thinking wasn't?

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@genessa
I've reread my post 6 times now and I'm still convinced the word "Bible" does not appear in it. A quote from the bible is not a mention of the "Bible".

"as far as i know ALL of the bible is mythological. which part were you thinking wasn't?"

"but all it takes is a glance at the begatting chapter to see that these things were intended to be taken literally (what can we learn, emotionally, from that nonstory?"

Aw heck, pour us both another drink.

@skado of course a quotation from the bible is a mention of the bible. in what universe does it not invite a responsive mention of the bible? you have to say the WORD "bible" or else i am out of line referring to it? that's ridiculous!

just because the begatting chapter was INTENDED to be taken literally that doesn't mean it is not mythological. we're talking about intention, not actuality.

i give up. if you think quoting the bible but not saying the word "bible" means you were not including the bible in your mythologies, then we are not living on the same planet and i don't want a drink (with you or at all). if you're drinking, that explains a lot.

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@genessa
Sorry, my friend. I am not able to follow your train of thought.
Best wishes.

@skado sorry, but we are not friends. i'm not saying we're enemies, but we're not friends, and i totally believe you when you say you cannot follow my train of thought. maybe reread all this when you have NOT been drinking. best wishes back atcha at any rate.

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@skado As I have studied the bible more and more these last few years, i can't help that it appears to be a cruel joke, perhaps one played to see just how ignorant we can be. I say that after making lists of all things god himself does (his 'fruits', the very things that we are told are evil, wicked and sinful...even satanic. easy 99% of all the evils done in the bible! And few notice....or care. My own adult daughter told me "I don't care WHAT it says!", in it's defense....
And then all the contradictions...not 5 or 10 or 50 or 100 but many, many hundreds, as if it was done intentionally, as nearly everything it says, it says the opposite of as well...

@Realist9 i don't think it was a joke, cruel or otherwise. it's just that it's got so many authors and editors. consistency? fat chance! between the gazillions of authors and editors and the political aspirations of the latter, and the general ignorance of the multiple times in which it was written, there is no way it could possibly hold together.

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@Realist9
Yes, the Bible as a whole, if assumed to be the work of a single mind, or even a single committee, taken literally could hardly be seen as anything other than a cruel and destructive joke. And, as you say, a lot of believers don't really care what it says because it is really used more as a ceremonial object or sacred relic around which social structures are built that provide the identity, community, and sense of purpose that people are really seeking.

When I say that mythology was never intended to be taken literally I don't necessarily mean that it was intended in some other way, but rather that it's creation probably wasn't as much a product of conscious intention as it was unconscious emergence of archetypal expression. If there is any value in it at all it would come from analyzing it like one would a nonsensical dream, from a psychological perspective, and trying to decipher the symbology.

@skado why in the world would we assume that it was the work of a single mind or committee?

as for your explanation of what you meant, is there some clue in your original post about that? i don't see any. not trying to be insulting. i just really see none.

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