So, growing up on a farm -- a livestock/dairy farm -- I quit eating cows by the time I was 13 because I realized how wonderful they were as individuals and I had an amazing pet cow. I stopped eating pigs, sheep, etc by the time I was 15. We are talking the 1970s...in the middle of a rural area....surrounded by farms where no one ever heard the word "vegetarian" or "vegan". Some people, exposed to the truth at an early age, make the connection faster than others who don't have the same experiences. However, once you realize the truth....then you can make the decision not to pay people to imprison and kill animals on your behalf. It's really simple. NO animal willingly chooses a slaughterhouse to die. They are forced by humans. That is a violations of THEIR RIGHTS. Let the animals make their own choices...they deserve that, don't they?

@SkotlandSkye That's good and all, but like I said, you can still care about and love animals while eating animals. As for their rights, I believe they have a right to be treated as fairly as possible (I know that doesn't happen at times) until they become food. A tiger doesn't care about the rights of a deer as it suffocates it. The pack of hyenas doesn't care about the rights of a buffalo as they eat it alive. A komodo dragon doesn't care about rights as it waits for weeks for its prey to slowly die of a bacterial infection from its bite. We are animals who eat animals, but for the most part, we try to lessen the suffering of the animals we eat. That's a step up, but we can do much better.

Also, if you don't live 100% off grid and grow your own plants, you too are contributing to the overall suffering of animals. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

I guess I must be meeting the nice Vegans because I've never felt like that about the Vegans I know. They have never made me feel bad for eating what little meat I still do eat, but have offered to help me with recipes to further my education on eating without meat. Sorry that hasn't been the case for you.

@FatherOfNyx Ah...so you are saying that humans are no different than tigers and hyenas? Do you see tigers and hyenas building warehouses to raise their prey and slaughterhouses to kill them in? LOL There is a BIG difference. You have supermarkets and choices. We would like to think that you also have the capacity to reason through advanced ethics....but...maybe not. Your mind is made up...so, no further discussion is necessary.

@Redheadedgammy It's mostly vegans on the internet. Like with all groups of people, the internet brings out the worst of them. Most I meet in person aren't bad.. but I also have no interest in becoming a vegan, so I am sure that plays a factor.

@FatherOfNyx true, that you have no interest probably plays a factor.

@SkotlandSkye I just don't deny who and what I am. I am an omnivorous animal. Personally, I'd like to move to a mostly insect based diet, but until then, I'll eat both plants and animals and the occasional insect.

You are using 8% for ALL types of NYR's...which, is incorrect. You would need data for Ethical choices vs. Lifestyle choices. I realize that it's my industry, and not yours, but the rise of Veganism in the past few years has been astounding. The number of V certified foods in stores has gone up over 1000%. Kroger stores have even stated that Vegan foods are the fastest growing segment.
[theguardian.com]

[mercyforanimals.org]

[forbes.com]

[foodrevolution.org]

@SkotlandSkye Fine there are more vegan stores.

But the headline is still an epic fail.

Please site where participants in this study achieved the required 94% of those who as a new year's (because they are more successful then others?) resolution required as the asserted outcome in this study who promised to reach the required 2,503,126 to be rounded up to three million.

That is excellent! most people with digestive issues -- like IBS and others --- find that those issues go away once they stop consuming dead flesh, breast milk, and eggs.

@SkotlandSkye I stopped drinking milk and found that a lot of my stomach issues completely stopped. I still eat eggs, but I get mine from a lady farmer near me who raises her chickens for egg laying period. She also has wonderful produce during the summer months, and does the root crops during the winter months. It is a whole new way of looking at food and the animals that inhabit the world with us. I am embracing this way of eating 100% because I can't abide by animals being treated so horribly anymore. I think once you start looking into the way our culture raises and treats animals you come away shocked at the pain and horror we inflict on animals.

@Redheadedgammy People always say that once they start focusing on the animals that their decisions come easier. It's true. When you start seeing them as living beings instead of "merchandise", you make better choices.

@SkotlandSkye I sent you a PM with my email. I would love to read Dr. Greger e-book if you would be so kind as to send it to me.

@Redheadedgammy You bet!!!! happy to!

@SkotlandSkye Thank you!

@Redheadedgammy it didn't come through and I don't seem to be able to message you....is it my settings or yours that are messed up?

@SkotlandSkye I'll try again.

@SkotlandSkye I sent another message to your PM box so hopefully it came thru this time. The first one I sent is showing up on my PM box. May be a glitch in the system???

@Redheadedgammy yeah, I'm in the Senate asking....another person has experienced the same glitch.

@SkotlandSkye Oh good, I'm not to hip on the workings of computers so am no help what so ever. LOL

@Redheadedgammy You're a Level 7, are you in the Senate? You should join. One member says messages have been wonky lately and that they all come through later than when they are sent

@SkotlandSkye oh, good to know. I just went and joined the Senate too. Thanks for looking into the problem. I look forward to getting the info when you can send it.

So...when a cow is being dragged into a slaughterhouse....who exactly is being bullied and who is the bully? Speciesism is ugly...every bit as ugly as racism, sexism, ageism...etc.

The bully is not who you think it is.

you might also want to look into the research and science by these fine DOCTORS
[nutriciously.com]

and, even IVY LEAGUE Cornell University offers plant-based nutrition courses.
[ecornell.com]

Is that enough science for you? Because there are literally hundreds of thousands of research papers you could find and read if you cared.

and one less troll cluttering my newsfeed. Buh-bye.

Then you are doing it incorrectly. Please check out my friend Robert's site:
[veganbodybuilding.com]

He also has some great books and does seminars -- as do most of the meat-free athletes. [meatfreeathlete.com]

NFL players, pro Basketball players, and thousands of other athletes have gone plant-based.
There are great books available and lots of coaches and meal-planners online who will help you do it correctly.
[sbnation.com]

Here's 10 NFL players that are plant-based:
[mercyforanimals.org]

Serena Williams is also vegan....here's her info and other athletes that are also vegan
[irishexaminer.com]

@SkotlandSkye I did it correctly. I ate a variety of beans, nuts, and legumes. I even made sure to eat the complementing amino acids to make the complete amino acid profile in digestion.
I consumed 2000-3000 calories a day.
I know it might be hard to believe but every person isn't identical. Studies have shown time and time again no diet has the same effect across all participants.

@Biosteelman did you have a meal planner/coach? Or did you do it on your own? Because, I've never known anyone who honestly tried to go plant-base to fail for "health" reasons and I've been doing this for 22 years. 100% of those problems can be overcome if you involve a coach/planner to tweak the meals and ingredients as you go.

For example, the "combined proteins" you mention have been proven to be a myth. [forksoverknives.com]

@SkotlandSkye Thats good to know, but that only makes me want to avoid an all plant diet even more so. If the reason I failed was due to malnutrition and I wasn't consuming enough of the essential amino acids; I would consider retrying but since you said its not the case I won't.

I want you to really think about the advice you just gave me about a coach. If I eat meat I'm healthy and don't need a specialist but to eat your recommended diet I do.

I researched the topic quite a bit at the time, as we both know nutrition is a highly evolving field of study. There are many points of view of perfect diet but held to empirical testing the only thing that hold true across all of them is lower your reliance on grains, sugar, and processed foods. Look at the egg I've lost count how many times it has been recommended as healthy and then found unhealthy.

If I was sick I'm sure there are others that were too. I know what to eat that I feel healthy.

@Biosteelman You do realize that millions of corpse munchers hire people every year to explain to them why they have high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and clogged arteries, right? So, if eating dead flesh was healthy, why do all those people need doctors (and medications) to fix their problems that were created by eating the most common diet of dead animals and animal secretions?

Honestly, your mind is made up and you aren't willing to look into all the links I provided and all the millions of healthy people -- including pro athletes and Olympic athletes -- who eat 100% plant-based. There is nothing further to discuss.

@SkotlandSkye lol. Use of anecdotal evidence and not acknowledging factual science that shows people don't have a universal answer to diet and nutrition is only invalidation to a society of critical thinkers.

I was willing to try I did 3 different times. I did tons of research from respected MD and athletes who have done it. It just doesn't work for me. It was apparent so much that my wife begged me to go eat meat because she could see I was ill. I'm not the only person who has experienced this. There is anecdotal evidence of some famous people who it failed on too for the similar reasons. Most famously Angelina Jolie.

I think you need to do some more research on nutrition if you think everyone is the same.

@Biosteelman I have a nutrition degree, but thanks. Like I said, I've never seen anyone fail for health reasons in 22 years...the fact that you had old, wrong science about proteins is probably just the tip of the iceberg as to what went wrong. If all the people you "consulted" with had that same misinformation, that is discouraging. Please look into better information. Here are 18 doctors who have good books/websites...etc. and none of them have wrong information such as the protein combining myth. I can't believe you had MDs tell you that nonsense....science has known better for well over 2 decades. Anyhow, here's the link....try, or don't try. That's up to you at this point.
[nutriciously.com]

@SkotlandSkye I see you (we both know then nutrition has guidelines but is a very individual fact, you pretending to ignore that for your ideology is weird) . I've also read the studies and know the issue of colinearity that heavily exists within the studies that are being promoted as good medical research. Example further studies that isolated other cancerous habits found that eating meats correlation became much weaker, when accounting for processed meats, how charred the meat was, smoking, excessive drinking, work environment etc... as each one was accounted for the correlation between heart disease and colon cancer further decreased.

Margarine was the single largest increase of heart disease in the American diet and was made with a faked study to show a link between butter and heart disease by a ideology of Veganism.

People who stand from soap boxes rarely have individuals best interest at heart.

But it's NOT necessary. Hundreds of millions of humans have lived and existed just fine on a plant-based diet.

I myself have been plant-based for over 2 decades and I'm over 50 now with NO health issues.

"The numbers
In the U.S., four percent of men and seven percent of the women are defined as vegetarians. In India, where there are religious reasons guiding a cruelty-free diet, 31 percent of the population is considered vegetarian. In Europe, vegetarians are an estimated ten percent of the population. Worldwide, vegetarians total 375 million.

The roots of vegetarianism
Although supposedly a modern trend, vegetarianism in the West has very ancient roots. Many of the early Greek and Roman philosophers, including Plutarch, Pythagoras, Seneca and Porfirio, followed a meatless diet as a refusal of animal sacrifices to the gods and out of respect for living beings.

Vegetarian by faith
A quarter of India’s population – Hindus, Buddhists and Jainists – believe in reincarnation and the practice of non-violence, and therefore follow a vegetarian diet. Jain monks are so compassionate towards all living beings, even the smallest of insects, they sweep them out of the way so as not to tread on them."

[expo2015.org]

@SkotlandSkye -- So, we have a whopping 4.7% of the Earth's human population who are primarily vegetarian. The largest percentage of the whole are controlled by religious reasons, and the remaining tiny percentage is largely vegetarian while those who choose to be vegan (very different from vegetarian) represent a tiny fraction of that.

I enjoy your use of terms. Harmful. Cruelty-free. Kind. You are not riding on a moral mountain. In many ways this sounds like believers saying things like, "Give up your sinful ways and accept the lord so you can get to heaven. There is no other way, and your ways are shameful in the eyes of the Big Dude."

If you want to be vegan, that's great --- for you. I have told you before that I agree that there are certain segments of the human population who probably do eat too much animal protein, but there are those whose pysiology requires more than others. All biological systems are different and their requirements vary as a result.

Even among the Hindus there is wide variation in thoughts regarding diet and dietary requirements. The Vedic texts have conflicting verses, which scholars have interpreted to mean support or opposition to meat-based food. A group states that some Vedic hymns mention animal sacrifice and therefore support non-vegetarianism. According to Marvin Harris, who was an anthropologist and prolific writer, the Vedic literature is contradictory, with some suggesting ritual slaughter and meat consumption, while others suggest a taboo on meat eating. Again, take your choice and support it with this or that so everything is okay.

You say that it is so simple to choose compassion. I say compassion is meted out according to different recipes based in cultural history and though I agree that we should do as little harm as possible, I do not agree, nor does the overwhelming majority of trained dieticians and health experts, that humans should all go to the vegan extreme. So, you go on with your diet and I wish you good health, but I'm telling you that there is little difference between dietary proselytizing and religious proselytizing.

Ask yourself how many times you have seen anyone come up with lines promoting omnivorous diets? How about carniverous diets? The only promoting I see, other than MacDonald's and Burger King, comes mainly from vegans and minimally from vegetarians. It is as if the vegans have this inner drive to preach their gospel and I find myself wondering about who it is supposed to benefit, the vegans or we pagans?

@evidentialist I'm sorry your heart isn't willing to consider options that would prevent the suffering and deaths of your fellow Earthlings. There is nothing further I can say to someone who has already made up their mind. Would you consider it for environmental reasons?
[independent.co.uk]

[cnn.com]

or does the planet not matter either?

@SkotlandSkye -- You make rather broad and totally erroneous assumptions about me. You also do me great injustice through intimating that my heart 'isn't willing to consider.' I have considered all these issues from all angles and continue to consider them. I am also actively involved in environmental issues and bettering the world in which I live. I am also well versed in biological issues. Added to all that, I am a realist. Humans, like all members of the great ape family, are omnivores. Some members of each species require more animal protein than others owing to differences in their systems, and some consume far more animal protein than is necessary, but we are all, by nature, omnivorous. In order to make up for the deficiency of animal intake, vegans must ingest artificial replacements for what is missing from their diet or they will get ill. There have been fatal incidents caused by not giving enough importance to this issue. I suggest to you that the vegan diet is not natural to humans and the mere fact that supplements are necessary supports that position.

@evidentialist but that's not true. A Whole Food Plant-based diet includes no "artificial" replacements. Eating a WFPB diet is the healthiest choice. While most people use processed vegan foods to "transition", they generally end up in eating 100% whole foods....even raw. Most also give up SOS -- Salt, Oil, and Sugar. Also, I haven't taken a supplement in years. I'm not sure where you are getting your information that we need supplements because, plant-based diets when done correctly, lack nothing.

@SkotlandSkye -- Revise that to read that vegans, need to pay attention to ensuring they get enough protein, iron, calcium, vitamin D, vitamin B12, and omega–3 fatty acids. If they don't, dire consequences can and will result. This is something you have to do deliberately which is why I say it is not a natural diet. A natural healthy diet doesn't demand anything. I don't know what you're after other than to justify you being on a vegan diet. I've already agreed that some eat way too much animal product, but the consumption of animal proteins and associated vitamins is a natural part of the omnivore's diet. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me what it is you hope to achieve by pushing an unnatural diet on the heathens of the world? Note, I did not say unhealthy. There is no question about that. That it is unnatural for the human being also goes without question.

Actually, I haven't paid attention to that stuff in years. Once you get past the learning curb, it's easy.
[peta.org]

@SkotlandSkye -- That 'stuff' that represents the learning curve is what is unnatural about the diet. Please understand that I am not saying it is wrong. Eat what you will. If you thrive on it, great. If you don't, I'm sorry.

So, you are equating a carrot with a puppy?

And you want me to take that seriously?

so, you see no difference in cutting up a puppy compared to cutting up a carrot?

Sometimes I wonder if people actually realize how insane they sound....

@SkotlandSkye, yes, in a way. It's all in the mind. Just because you don't see the pain expression of a plant, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I never ate dog's meat (I believe so until proven otherwise). I have eaten horse steak, which shocked many people that see horses a certain way. Just to offend you, I still see plants as living creatures as much as animals and it's a necessary evil to kill to survive. I understand that due to this capitalistic world many things are done in an awful way, that can't be deffended, probably could be changed. Why don't we give the plants the same rights as to animals?

@Paddypereira I realize that this might be above your reading comprehension level, but here you go:
[abolitionistapproach.com]

By the way, you should look up the author of the article. He's a well-know Animal Rights Attorney, Law Professor, and book author. You know, in other words, he's way smarter than most people will ever dream of being.

@SkotlandSkye, I'm not going to watch what you sent, not to be arrogant but because I don't believe that's the way to go. Thank for not being vulgar, like someone else was to me before.

@Paddypereira it's not something to watch, it's something to read. It will explain the science to you that you are missing. If you pose the question of plants vs. animals, you should be at least willing to hear the answer. Or, why bother asking?

buh-bye troll.

I will assume you are referring to a giant slab of Texas brisket.

"The numbers
In the U.S., four percent of men and seven percent of the women are defined as vegetarians. In India, where there are religious reasons guiding a cruelty-free diet, 31 percent of the population is considered vegetarian. In Europe, vegetarians are an estimated ten percent of the population. Worldwide, vegetarians total 375 million.

The roots of vegetarianism
Although supposedly a modern trend, vegetarianism in the West has very ancient roots. Many of the early Greek and Roman philosophers, including Plutarch, Pythagoras, Seneca and Porfirio, followed a meatless diet as a refusal of animal sacrifices to the gods and out of respect for living beings.

Vegetarian by faith
A quarter of India’s population – Hindus, Buddhists and Jainists – believe in reincarnation and the practice of non-violence, and therefore follow a vegetarian diet. Jain monks are so compassionate towards all living beings, even the smallest of insects, they sweep them out of the way so as not to tread on them."

[expo2015.org]

"The Brokpa tribe of Ladakh, for example, has thrived eating vegan for more than 5,000 years – all while living in harsh Himalayan terrain.

Plant-based foods provide all the nutrients and vitamins the Brokpa need to live healthy, active lives at 15,000 feet. The tribe’s staple food is barley, which they harvest on steep mountainsides. In addition to barley, a traditional Brokpa meal might include roti baked in an earthen oven, lettuce leaves, roasted potato, spring onion, boiled cauliflower and wild mint. Almond, apricot and walnut are other essential foods, as well as large amounts of black tea fortified with barley flour."

[petaindia.com]

@SkotlandSkye Great video and very interesting history. Thank you for posting.

@SkotlandSkye We could go back and forth on this; if your way of eating works for you, good for you. I would say though that referencing diet since the advent of agriculture 10K years ago, in terms of the time it took us to evolve and what we ate doing so, doesn't prove that avoiding animal foods is "natural" or "healthy." Finally, eating meat is not cruel, notwithstanding some of the admittedly less than optimal industrial food practices that yes, I would like to see changed. To survive, other animals and living things die, even if one is vegan.

@Mitch07102 Your definition of cruelty and mine are obviously very different.

and fortunately, we have supermarkets
Also, most restaurants now have veggie options ....

But, honestly, making food at home is the healthiest, easiest, and most cost effective option.

[forksoverknives.com]

[amazon.com]

You are either Vegan or you are NOT. There is no middle ground.

Veganism is an Ethical stance and extends to your whole life -- from what you eat to what you wear to what you choose for entertainment...etc.

@josh_is_exciting

My point was that the term has a definition as should not be misused. For example, the media often says things like "Beyonce' is Vegan" but she wears leather and fur. More correctly, they should report that she and Jay-Z eat a "plant-based diet".

My response was only to end the misuse of the term. Anything else is reading into it beyond what I wrote.

I have the amazing book by Dr. Michael Greger titled "How Not to Die" on E-Book. If you pm me your email address, I will send it to you.

It is real science and nutrition.

@SkotlandSkye Excellent! I will pm you today.

There is no "Right or Wrong"
...
Only "Love or Harm"