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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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578 comments (376 - 400)

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4

I either ignore them , either I let them have it when they start preaching . And they always do . I have said this b4. Religion is not a matter of philosophy for me . Either u accept that religion harms humanity , either u understand that silence = approval , either not . I will never be ok w people who see nothing wrong w the crimes that are daily in the game Bcz of religion . Ask any boy who was raped by a catholic priest to tell u if he wants to talk w religious people on a internet site . Ask any young girl who was given as bride to fulfill religion traditions if she wants to talk w religious humans on a web site .
I stand w the victims and I stand w humanity . Humanity and religions are night and day in my book .
I am not here to teach anyone either how to escape religion or y I am an atheist . There are libraries , and book stores and internet . I am here to enjoy the company of other like minded humans . I don't visit the religious web sites .
This place is not my home . I am a guest . Like all of u . It's very clear to me that trolling , religious trolling is not permitted on the name of any hospitality . If I am wrong and rules have changed , I ll be glad to leave . If I am right , and religious people join to preach or praise their gods , they won't find a friend in me .

4

I'm a sensitive guy. I know that about myself. I can't take being berated for my beliefs for very long unless there's logic involved, and I too came here to avoid the usual mindless blather. I need a place where I can talk about this kind of thing without being surrounded by hateful people who convince themselves they're superior through faith.

I was 'followed' on this site by a woman who, hey, "100% believes there's a god" etc. etc. Now if I just stumble across someone like that, I'm not going to block them, but if they're going to follow me out of the blue, I'm going to go with my experience and say she's a troll. Immediately blocked.

4

I was a believer for 20 years. I don't mind. I think it's a good idea because then they will learn that god is not real.

Do you honestly believe that? That any come here with the intent of learning anything?

no they won't. i have never seen it happen. what i have seen is believers proselytizing, or asking provocative questions for the purpose of converting us, or even being scammers CLAIMING to be believers and looking for the naive to scam. it is POSSIBLE a believer might have doubts and come here to figure it all out. i haven't seen it yet.

g

4
  • I don't know what the rules presently say, but so far I haven't run into too many covert or overt theists.
  • If a theist wants to join as an overt up-front theist, I might be ok with there being some limited capacity for them to do so, perhaps in a cordoned off area where they can engage with atheists/agnostics who do want to engage with them. It is possible that someday I suppose I could enjoy some discussion with them, but it will damage the usefulness of this site for me if the site just becomes a broader mixture and if I am not able to zoom in and engage only with atheists and agnostics as the main activity here.
  • I am against theists covertly pretending to be atheists and joining, but it is something that is going to happen from time to time. I also usually succeed in avoiding wasting my time trying to figure out if someone I am speaking with is not being up-front aboout their theism. I guess I just focus on the topic at hand and eventually if they're a theist, hopefully they will just realize I'm not interested in their nothing game.
kmaz Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
4

Why not let them hear a worthwhile idea or two, as long as they are not rude to others and don't waste peoples time. And I am sorry to disagree, but I have changed my opinions on several thing since I was twenty, (long time ago) and hope I always will, that is what keeps you alive and moving forward.

4

Depends on how disruptive they intend to be.
If they want to ask questions and have a dialog, let them come. If they want to preach the truth of the bible they can take their evil superstitions and lies and stick it somewhere no one can see.

4

I'm not big in launching into a dispute for which there is no clear opposition. Are religious people attempting to join Agnostics.com? There may be but I have not seen anything beyond a few agnostics who are presumably "on the fence".

OCJoe Level 6 Sep 26, 2018

There is one - the "Boo" bird. I hope I don't scare anyone.

@rock9361 No offense...you're not in the least ''scary." More to the point...have you decided to come hear and bore everyone with your myths? Dogma? Understand that many people here have no respect whatsoever for the religious point of view. And we'll express those feelings freely, because....(drum roll) THIS IS AN ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC SITE! We can speak out about the ignorance of ''flat earthers'' or ''Witnesses" or Catholics, Baptists, etc. I believe this will eventually bother you.

4

As long as they do not come here to preach...

4

Wouldn't bother me not in the slightest.

4

I don't mind if they join b/c they (1) have questions about their faith - perhaps they are almost about to get a clue or (2) they come here to have discussions in a respectful manner. If they come here to flame the boards, kick them - they would do the same to us if we went to a religious site and started spewing hateful things to them.

I think that there are a lot of religious people who use this site because they have real doubts about their beliefs. This site gives them a place to be able to question their beliefs in a respectful manner. It has helped me a lot. I have found that there are very few people trying to convert us to their religion.I wouldn't want to exclude them.

4

We have the home advantage! Logic will be our sheilds, evidence as our swords! And we will unite to change the world! Who knows maybe joining this site will be their conversion!

"converting" believers is an evil trap presuming Atheism is a religion equal to all the violent faiths of hell threats and heaven bribes.....In 38 years of American Atheist leadership I have never "converted" anyone nor should we.... to do so is cult activity telling believers what to think.... our Atheism is critical thinking in action... if a believer is afraid of their own thoughts imposed upon them by parents or cultists, we Atheists must teach the safety of thinking absent any fear BY EXAMPLE not by luring believers here or allowing their "witnessing" here in www.agnostic.com

and I have always refused to "debate" the irrational question "does gawd exist" yes gibberish exists but the various sounds gott gods YHWH are all referents without object... oxymorons.... ideas negating themselves.....to capitalize IN gawd WE TRUST is showing zero resistance to illegal theocracy....until believers show proof of exactly what and where their alleged deity is, I shall not enable their sounds they make as if something called deos exists

accordingly, Atheism is mis-defined by xian Webster and other dictionaries.... we have no theism.... period, we are free of such delusions.... disbelieving other's beliefs is oxymoronic and irrational.... Atheism is the examination of various religions and finding the 100% pattern of zero evidence for magic alleged miracles and alleged supernatural realms outside of the only knowable natural realm....I have no need to "believe in doors" because doors exist, I walk through doors... " belief in " is a non-sequitur ....I am not giving irrational rapist priests or any other violent believer a single nano space of tolerance for their evil faiths

4

No, no, no. It's bad enough I have them knocking on my door.

yes, i'm the same - it's like soiling our nest, i feel.

4

I agree 100% that I came here to get away from them, and I am too damn old to keep arguing with them. I threaten to attend church with them! Go to their church, sit right next to them! Obviously, that won't work online... But it can when it's in person. I'll say I will wear my Atheist hat too... (I don't actually have one. Yet) I have also noticed, that they often feel compelled to follow us, hunt us like the witches of Salem were, Track us down to confront us with their 'truths'... WHY? Why do they care? I think they must remove all doubters, so as to remove their own misgivings about the ridiculous nature of what they espouse. As long as we exist we can make them doubt, and they can't stand that. They HAVE to be right! Have to... or what have they been worshiping ? A silly fantasy story? That can't be. Religion is a powerful tool for controlling huge numbers of people with out firing a shot. If I had to think up a way of doing that job from scratch, I'd invent religion. Doubt, threatens that control. So the leaders say they "must go forth, convert the godless! Save them!" Oh Gwad.... save me from them.

4

I just joined this site a few days ago but as a long time atheist, I'm fine with theists joining as long as they understand their expressions of faith will not be treated respectfully. If they can handle having their fantasies challenged then I'm fine with their inclusion.

But it's doubtful I'll be polite about it.

I like how Dawkins puts it. People always have merit, but religion does not get a free pass. If ideas are weak and unsupportable they will be dismissed. Insistence on the ridiculous will get you banned.

4

I don't see why they should be here. They have enough places to go. Now that they have been given protection to discriminate. I want them gone. I went from being atheist to antitheist. I am so tired of their ignorance and circular reasoning. Like their kind like to say"you can't fix stupid".

4

No Way! if converters join I will leave, simple eh!

Only problem is that's probably what they are going for. Make them renounce their fictional god to sign up.

please don't! we need to maintain this precious non-hypocritical, taboo-free & openminded space for intelligent folks. report them, block them, but please don't leave.

4

Don't mean shit to me. I take joy in tearing them and their absurd beliefs to spreads. I am doubtful anyone other than the most mentally ill would venture into a platform where reason rules the day. (SHREADS NOT SPREADS)

4

My feeling is that the religious minded person would not linger here...it is not geared toward the way their thinking has developed! On the other hand, there are among the religious people those that are skeptical and are ‘exploring!’ And the last, would be those hard core, almost mentally unstable people, that are bound to ‘infiltrate’ to show ‘those devil worshipers’ that they are going straight to ’hell!’ So if there is an individual plan in place to ‘traverse this landscape’ with these people...it will be fine!

4

They don't stay long just be glad of that .

Simon1 Level 7 July 13, 2018

haven't encountered one for a while 😀

4

Ha, why would they come here? Yes, I know that they want to convert but mostly that is done in person. Awfully hard to get your point across on a chat room full of unbelievers.

4

I have never heard a convincing argument from an apologist in my lifetime.

No creo en Dios

4

If they're going to come into a place like this and try to accost me, they'd best be prepared to get a double-earload of blasphemy. That, and I think if they honestly try to debate the topic with me, there's a much better chance that I'll de-convert them than them coming up with the necessary proof to convert me.

It wouldn't be very difficult for them to convert me to their religion - I have a couple amputees already picked out that they can make whole before my eyes, without knowing ahead of time who they are or what parts they are missing.

A faith healer tried to "cure" my tinnitus today, calling it: " demons of sound in his head lard..." no change in 46 years since US Navy FITRON 126 NAS MIRAMAR TopGUN noisiest place on earth 2000 touch&goes per day training pilots to qualify for carrier duty....jet blasts hit your skull worse than playing football helmet to helmet

4

I'm of a like mind as you. Either they want to convert, disrupt, or find material to refute, I would wager. It's possible there may be the odd one who is actually objectively interested in what goes on here, and why; but, certainly they are few and far between.

4

live and let live im sure some of you would drive them away they would not wanna stay long

Believers are the ocean supporting the violent criminal theocrat sharks swimming most everywhere depths of patriarchy. ....if any beach here let's cybershoot 'em. ...44 magnum through the virtual eyes of delusion. ...maybe a Quaker for Peace might want to date a Veteran for Peace here but face facts the alleged hell threat nor heaven bribes perpetrators are not seeking forgiveness from Atheists nor condemning their bibles calling us "fools" "reprobates"

4

As I have said in previous posts....more or less, so long as fundamentalism, doesn't enter into it....who am I to argue?

RonB Level 5 Apr 25, 2018
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