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How common is it for societies to become predominantly deist before becoming predominantly atheist or agnostic?

In my country (the U.S.) organized religion is in a decline but the number of people who are embracing pseudoscience and previously non-mainstream spirituality is growing. I'm worried about the pseudoscience but am wondering if countries like Japan or Germany went through similar things. Am I right that it tends to take a gigantic economic and/or military crash for something like this to happen? How would you describe ties between American spirituality, the military, and the economy? And did Japan and/or Germany see a large but temporary uptick in pseudoscience and/or deism either a couple of decades before or a couple of decades after significant/catastrophic military defeat? What about China or Great Britain? Ancient Rome or Egypt? How did deism fit into the picture in those places and time periods? Are there any other world powers or former world powers I should be considering? What about some of the less powerful countries? Do you see any significant parallels there, as well?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

IntoTheMist 4 Mar 22
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I understand that movement away from organised doctrine moves into a more abstract phase, I.e. new age, non-doctrinal spirituality and so forth before emerging into agnosticism or atheism. I haven’t done the research but my hypothesis would be that atheism is dependant upon the impact of religious doctrine at the outset. There is some literature out there somewhere about these migrations but I can’t remember who or what?

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A study of the ebb and flow of religiosity would take volumes and still be incomplete due to great gaps in written history and the understanding of the events and societies at various times of cataclysmic changes in spirituality. On more recent histories, the French Revolution, where the God anointed Royals were put to the guillotine by the masses fed up with their religiously prescribed lot comes to mind. In the East, the Russian Orthodoxy is making somewhat of a comeback after decades of suppression under Communism (again, the people’s uprising against the supposedly God appointed Czar and royalty) and current leaderships embrassing of the religion for its own purposes. In the grand scheme of things, religion has always been used as a means to control the masses by those who lead them. The Christian faith and bible were not widespread until the Roman Cesar, I believe Constantine (too lazy to look it up) decided to consolidate various Christian texts into one which would give him the “Godly ordained” power to rule over his Empire. It was such a great rendition of these texts that it has held more or less ever since. Right sadly until this very present time, with Evangelicals belief that Trump was chosen by their God to lead the United States back into its God ordained place in the world.

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There is a positive correlation that exists between atheism and GDP growth.

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I don’t have any idea if the facts support my intuition on this, but I just assumed that the decline of traditional religion and the rise of alternative spirituality only reflected a superficial change due to the fact that a literal God-belief had fallen out of fashion, and people wanted to spend their Sunday mornings doing other things, but that their general tendency to shore up their worldview with superstition had not substantively changed.

If that intuition happens to be right, it might suggest the phenomenon is more specific to our culture and our time than to any universal pattern in history, but it’s only a guess on my part.

skado Level 9 Mar 22, 2019
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I heard that there’s an association between hardship and reliance on religion/superstition. Can’t remember where, though ?. Pinker? Dawkins? Fry?

I'm absolutely certain that part's true. My real question is whether or not snake oil might have made a big comeback in Beijing right before or right after WWII, or anything like that. It would make sense if the economy had been wrecked and people were desperate, but I don't remember specifically being taught anything about any direct relationships between war (or impending war) and pseudoscience. Dang. I might have to Google for book ideas now...

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"How common is it for societies to become predominantly deist before becoming predominantly atheist or agnostic?"

Has that ever been the case?

I have no idea. That's why I'm asking. I'm sure it's probably happened among some populations, though. There have been hundreds or thousands of religions in the world, and we're looking at approximately a quarter million years of human history with about 10,000 years of recorded (to a certain degree) history. I'm not informed on them enough to be certain whether or not this has ever happened, but with about a quarter million years of human history, I lean towards the idea that it's probably happened at least a time or two. How often has it happened, if at all? And how numerous/powerful were the popuations, if they existed? Probably not very, but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out. I'm also really interested in how spirituality changed in Germany and Japan after WWII---I know that Japan saw an increase in Christianity, but the country has become less religious overall since then. I'm even less aware of how attitudes have shifted in Germany other than that they've gone from predominantly Christian to predominantly atheistic. Am also interested in how other countries' economic and/or military defeats have impacted their spiritual beliefs & how big a role deism, either individually or culturally, may have played in people's efforts to rebuild.

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Really thoughtful question. I don’t know the answer, but will hang around to see if anybody else does!

skado Level 9 Mar 22, 2019

Thank you! That's quite flattering. 🙂

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