I think that the problem is that a lot of these people do not think that they are lying. They were raised to believe in hell and fear god's wrath, etc. They too were brainwashed at very young ages and so they believe it to be the truth. I have Christian friends and it always makes me sad to see them teaching their kids about things that the child is too young to understand or form their own opinions about. Unfortunately, I don't believe that it is going to change anytime soon. On the plus side, polls are saying that the new generation of kids is the least religious thus far, so maybe things are changing for the better.

I only see religion as mind control so it's always bad. Not to mention all the hours wasted that could go to doing good for the planet. Far fewer conflicts, war and decisiveness.

If they don’t believe they are lying doesn’t that make it worse? I come from an area in which students believe that if they go to college they will lose their religion. So they don’t go, or find religious schools. We give this behavior a pass and don’t call it out. I believe that is the essential problem

Imagine how many people would be nonreligious if there was an age requirement where you could try to push religion on them, say 15 or 18. There would be much more. Some call this an "age of reason."

Not all religion is "as guilty" of lying. Liberal Christianity is guilty of lying mainly to itself, has a relatively live-and-let-live ethos. I have nowhere near the issue with it that I do with fundamentalism.

I am of the belief that the way out of religion for society is through religion. I don't see massive numbers of people deconverting and becoming militant atheists. Rather, I see larger numbers of people maturing into a more liberal, inclusive faith that leads with good works rather than dogma and authoritarianism. Eventually, a few generations hence, people think of church as a place of community and support, with some quaint traditions that aren't taken too seriously or even deeply understood anymore. They become like the Masons, no longer actual stone masons, their original raison d'etre long since obsolete in a world without guilds.

I see it this way because (1) society isn't in my view ready to cleanly exit childhood, or even eager to, and so will cling to the religious security blanket; (2) at this rate it will take another thousand years for religion to become a fringe element in society through people overtly turning away from it, but could transcend itself in the manner described above, plausibly, in a two to four more generations.

I've never met an atheist that "thinks religion is not all bad". Have you?

Hi fellow Oregonian. You are is a very pretty part of the state! I have done many hikes in your area.

" I get angry when thinking of all those wasted years spent in fear on the guy in the sky!"

Me too, especially in years one and two of my deconversion. They had lies to account for everything. I missed out on fully living my life during my most youthful years of my life. It pissed me off to no end. I am doing my best to make up for lost precious time with my older body. Every day is sooo valuable. After all, this is the only existence I will ever know.

verery true

I think ALL religion is EVIL. I also think children should never be lied to.

If children are not being indoctrinated by religion, they are being indoctrinated by governments, I think the brainwashing from both sides needs to end.

I think they all suck. Its the reason the world is in such turmoil, has been for hundreds of years! As John Lennon sang, "Imagine no Religion". This planet would so much better!

Whoever thinks religion is not all bad is not an Atheist.

Uncle karl called it :"opium for the masses" Think about it, opium is not bad. It is very good when you are in pain and have to carry on. The pain of existance has to be mitigated somehow, plus keep people motivated to work harder, faster, better to achieve the dream of capitalism: continuous growth.

On the other hand...mythology has played an important part in human lives for a long time.

There is nothing wrong with religion as long as one doesn't take it too seriously.

That,s a really good point!

I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't think religion is all bad. Religious positives include:

1. Setting and policing a moral code (some people seem to need this.)
2. Providing answers to unanswerable questions (thought science has provided much more plausible answers to many of them over the years.)
3. Providiing a sense of hope and control in hopeless or frightening situations (pray to God that the crops won't fail or the volcano won't erupt.)
4. Providing comfort in our own mortality, and that of those we care for.

In some ways, I envy people who have faith. They have access to all of these things, and I don't. Whether God exists is moot. Either way, religion is a man made construct designed to provide all of the above, and to allow those in charge to control its followers.

It's only a lie if you don't believe it to be the truth. A Christian passing on Christianity to their offspring is not lying to them. They're passing on their truth.

I'm one of those atheist that think it's not that bad. Well... Let me put it this way, some of them are not that bad. So it's not universally bad. You got controlling atheist out there to. Atheist tend to think of themselves as more rational, than everybody else but I simply to not believe it. I know an atheist that believes atheism is a leap of faith and science is "bullshit". I dated an atheist that believes in aliens and 911 was an inside job by Bush. The list goes on.

My main concern is fundamentalism, be it religious or not. I think atheist need to get off their high horse and realize we are human too. Just because we figured out the God question didn't mean we got everything else figured out.

Sorry for the rant.

I see getting angry over the past as even more wasted time and energy. You could choose to rejoice that you corrected your path early on !

I don't see religion as anything other than a negative. No only for the person being indoctrinated but for society as a whole. If you want to stop mass murder I contend that eliminating religion would be far more effective than eliminating firearms.

I agree with all of what you said. I would say I'm one of the people who say religion is not all bad, but its like 75 % bad. Mostly because its taught it instill fear, especially in kids (definitely did for me), and also promotes the acceptance of societal inequality.

The positives I think tend to include humanitarian efforts and, when followed, some of the moral rules. Of course, these could be found without religion, but many don't undertake them without it. Then of course we can try to figure out if they're doing it to be nice and religion is a pathway for that, or if they're just doing it for heaven points.

Plus I guess the contributions to art and music are nice.

But yeah. fear, doubt and more fear? Thats bad. Very bad.

Of course some argue that letting a kid believe in Santa isn't too bad, but Santa doesn't tell you you're going to suffer for all eternity if you're bad. So I'm not sure its really close to the same thing.

Life can be incredibly difficult. Facing the random events that come into it every day can be overwhelming. Just everyday things like the crazy stress of your job and taking care of kids to the shocking things like unexpected financial hardships, breaking of long term relationships, the sudden death of a loved one. Doing all of that on top of living in a constant existential crisis can be more than some people can bear.

I don't bregrudge anyone using a crutch if their legs won't suooprt them, or using meds for mental illness where their mind betrays them, or distractions to dull things when they just need to hide for a while.

When religion works, it is because it is used to hide from the existential crisis. That's seems fair for those people. They get a sense of safety and community that helps sustain them. I don't begrudge them that. They find it works for them and they teach that to their kids and for some it becomes a working model. I know people who live this way and harm no one.

The issue comes when they think they get to force it on others either wholly or by passing laws that only apply to their belief. It occurs when they feel they must have uniform conformity to their belief; when they ignore science in favor of faith. I know may people who live this way as well.

I think it's important to separate the two. I have no problems with someone else's delusions, if it helps them get thru life and be happier in some way. I have enormous issues with it when it start spilling onto others.

You make it seem like a conspiracy. That there are some that do conspire, I have little doubt. I do think that most indoctrination comes from those that actually believe in the benefit of faith in the incredible. That it often leads to poor life choices, I also have little doubt.