Job training programs that train people for jobs that only pay a hand-to-mouth existence. What do the long-term studies show? How many offenders eventually re-offend despite completing a job training program? Or, is it just assumed they work?

Health care does have adverse consequences. It leads to an older demographic which places a larger burden on the young to support the old. Social services etc. are beginning to feel the strain. In some respects it might be argued that it would be better if we all smoked.

Rehab for offenders has the cost of a non-zero number of innocent people being hurt by re-offenders.

The evidence does not support that statement: [encyclopedia.com]

Even such public transportation comes at a cost...not to the public in general, but to individuals. Public transportation involves more time in transport than a car, less convenience which can be problematic for the old and infirm...my groceries only have to be carried to my car trunk which unloads at my house. I do not have to struggle with bags of groceries on public transportation.

@dahermit good point. Any ideas?

@MacTavish As I have posted elsewhere, there are no answers...or at least any that the world's society would except. The human population would have to be culled by a huge majority. All conservation/green/renewable, etc. can only slow the RATE (modestly) of destruction...not stop it.

@dahermit , no children. I did my part!!! lol

@MacTavish Unfortunately, the mass of humanity has not done its part.

The original water wheels did have a cost...they often blocked the spawning migration of many species of fish. Here in Michigan (Big Rapids, dam removed...lake gone, river back et. al.) many small power plants (water wheels), have been removed from rivers to allow the Spring spawning runs of fish.

@dahermit Ahhh of course! I didn't think about the industrial-sized water wheels.

Where does the sewage go, if not to the earth?

Water is becoming a more precious resource in many parts of the world due to drought (made worse by climate change) and geography. Low water use toilets and even toilets that do not use water are considered more environmentally friendly. That being said, I am certainly glad myself that we have hot and cold water and toilets.

The effluent from sewage treatment plants always is piped into a waterway. The treated effluent is NOT inert...if contains nutrients that cause algae blooms and other problem. THAT is the cost of sewage treatment plants.

@dahermit okay. We don't have to treat the sewage. Is that better? We choose to treat the sewage but whether we squat outside or don't treat the sewage doesn't matter. We don't have to.

@Crimson67 sorry, I forgot about the cost to build the toilet too. Nevermind. Toilets: horrible idea, way too costly.

@lerlo The treatment of sewage is related to urban life. If the sewage were just discarded into the street (as in medieval times), the flies would carry pathogens to the people and there would be massive outbreaks of disease. Therefore, the sewage has to be treated because we live in cities and the population density makes it imperative. In some third world South American countries they still allow pigs to run loose to eat the "night soil" that is thrown out from the houses (no indoor plumbing), and the pigs efficiently take care of it. However, that would not work in urbanized environments because the number of pigs needed would make that system impractical due to the problem with pig feces.

@dahermit related to urban life but not directly related to the toilet.

If one looks at the actual science behind some of these alternative concepts, they can easily see that they are not anywhere near as energy efficient as we are lead to believe. The Tata air car runs on compressed air. Energy must be used to compress the air. Even the most optimistic estimates for energy storage of compressed air come up well short of chemical storage (batteries) in terms of efficiency. Meyer's water car concept was found to be a fraud, and clearly violates the law of conservation of energy. Meyer died of a burst aneurysm, not poison. GM did not kill the EV1. The EV1 was a trial, and was never a production vehicle. Every EV1 that was on the road was leased from GM. No EV1 was ever sold. They were taken off the market not because of pressure from the oil industry or any other nefarious reason, but simply because the trial was over. Yes, most were crushed. The remaining EV1s were donated to museums. The Volkswagen Lupo did achieve 99 miles per gallon, but only under laboratory conditions. In real world driving conditions, the best the car managed was about 64 miles per gallon. This is in line with many other European diesel car models, like Ford's Fiesta. US automakers did not prevent the car from coming to market in the US because of some conspiracy, but rather for a few other reasons. Reason one is that Americans do not buy diesel powered cars, and tend to overlook very small cars like the Lupo. Reason two is that American safety standards are different than European standards. An American version of a European car often weighs much more because of required safety equipment. That naturally lowers their efficiency.

@d_day (sigh) You sound like the alt-right..everything about green energy is "fake news!" I suppose that now you are going to deny that the Stanley steamer race cars could go so fast just on steam power. In 1906, Fred Marriott set the world land speed record at 127.659 mph (205.5 km/h) at the Daytona Beach Road Course, while driving the Stanley Land Speed Record Car, winning the Stanley Motor Carriage Company the Dewar Trophy. Furthermore, Rice University scientists produced steam without boiling water, by adding metal and carbon nanoparticles to the water, heating it with only a few tiny solar screens, which would really make the steam car practical

@birdingnut Why would I deny the record the Stanley car set? It's a record that stood for more than 100 years. You do realize though, that the Stanley's design used gasoline as fuel, right? It wasn't designed like a locomotive where you simply open the firebox door and shovel in some wood or coal. Later Stanley cars used kerosene. That's not to say that steam isn't efficient. Steam power can achieve efficiencies over 40%, whereas internal combustion seems to top out at around 25%. But hey, if you really want to talk efficiency, the Stirling engine can reach efficiencies of 50%! Sadly, its design is ill suited to automobiles because of the automobile's need for rapidly changing RPM. And yes, Rice University's nanoparticle steam generation looks promising. It's main uses thus far are for water purification systems and autoclaves that do not require electricity. They've still got quite a way to go before it's practical for use as energy generation.

I agree...when we were roving bands of hunter/gatherers, it was hard for the biggest male to exert dominance over the others. If he exerted too much control...took their food and females, the others would just sneak away and start their own bands. "Civilization" changed all that...no more freedom to hunt and gather in a subsistence enviornment...now you need money and the big monkeys have us by the balls.

Vaccines reduce the number of human deaths, while at the same time accelerating the human world population and its inherent destruction of the environment.

@dahermit Stats done in the 3rd and developing world show the opposite to that, the fact that your children will live to adulthood actually effect the choice to have more children or not.

I know what you mean...but unless you flesh out your idea, it will be lost on many who dwell here.

there are way too many humans taking way too much to suit themselves without a care in the world for what they are doing and they keep on breeding and keep on taking. it's not an idea, its a fact and it will end disastrously if we as a species don't address it which we won't.nature won't die because of us and even if it does nature is just a word. there is no fair or rights in nature. we can make a difference is the really sad thing. even a virus doesn't completely consume its host.

That is perfectly clear to me.