I hear a lot from you guys that say women are too picky.
But are they really or is it more about what they don't want to repeat?
For me I don't want to date someone who is otherwise consumed by things like taking care of his otherwise capable mother or making him go out and find a job. Been there, done that. Does that make me picky or cautious?
Tell me an instance where a woman was picky for no 'good' reason.
I will be posting a women's question as well.
There are tropes out there about stereotypical 40-something women who finally decide to get married and have a list of requirements two pages long for some hypothetical perfect man who is charming, handsome, fit, writes great haiku, is vulnerable yet strong, confident yet humble, etc etc. And these women wonder why they never find "the one". They overestimate the supply (maybe even the very existence) of perfect men and overesimate how perfect they themselves are.
I saw this up close and personal with my never-married sister-in-law, back when she was in her early 40s. My wife tried to help her navigate dating sites and evaluate candidates and she didn't seem capable of anything but very shallow snap judgments about things that aren't central to what would make a good partner. This one is balding. That one isn't tall enough. This one isn't perfectly trim. This one is too blue-collar. My wife pretty quickly abandoned her sister to her fantasies. There just wasn't much to work with there if the objective is to deal in reality. And I'm not even suggesting my SIL wasn't pretty or didn't have attractive qualities -- that wasn't really a problem. But her expectations were sky-high.
All that said, are some women also not picky enough? You betcha. And I could say the same thing about men, in both directions. There are almost unlimited ways to self-sabotage when it comes to seeking a life partner.
Awe hell no. If you're looking for some one to spend your life with you better make damn sure they're someone you want to spend your life with. Granted, being too demanding or uncompromising can be detrimental to your relationship and/or partner's mental health. But only you can know what's going to be acceptable for you.
Men and women are both too picky.
Not so much of an issue for me yet,
I have met many women who are not the slightest bit attracted to or interested in me, which is cool, as the feelings are mutual. However, come the day that I fouind someone of great interest, and she doesn't feel the same, then I will feel poorly.
Too picky? I don't know.
I do know many wemon who expereinced bad relationships (years of wedlock) with really lousy guys so for those, I can conclude they were not picky enough.
"I think you are beautiful" Reply: "oh, tell me how" Full stop. Does this count as picky? It is a train wreck for me. My muse only attacks me at random and rarely when it's a romantic situation (not that said muse can't cause me to be romantic, I just usually have to think about that part longer).
We men might well find you attractive (would we be there if we didn't?) but we may not be articulate enough to express exactly WHAT it is about you that does so... worse, what if it's not one simple answer? What if we are attracted, DO find you beautiful but... don't know why? Meaning that it's a full package sort of beauty (personality, looks, style, heart, etc) rather than the perfect nose planted just so between the perfect cheeks, similarly hoisted beneath the perfect eyes and eyebrows, etc.... I think that I am articulate and let me tell you, I hear something like this and... TILT... I am done.
Are women, in general, too picky... aside from the above specific detail, it's a tough question to answer. In ways, very much so yes. Some of us guys would shine if we just had more confidence which would happen if we had more companionship. It's a sort of catch-22. Not getting dates, not associating with someone of your intended gender, causes you to lose confidence and thus be un-attractive to said gender and it is a vicious cycle.
I just asked a gal if she'd be willing to just be company for dinner. She has a boyfriend, I knew that but the way she talks about him led me to wonder if he is a BOYFRIEND or just a friend who happens to be male (and who just moved in, her words, which leads me to believe they are more like roommates than a committed couple... but, I digress). Me, I am looking to be able to associate more with the oppsosite sex (my gender of preference) and NOT be so alone for dinner. Would it be nice if it grew to be more? Certainly. Is it critical if it's just dinner? No. Right now I'd be happy with just the companionship which would increase my confidence, which would... you get the picture.
BUT, she said no. She pretty much HAD to say no because she is in a... relationship and he would 'freak out' if she were to do dinner with another man. Our culture doesn't allow us to be helpful to others. Granted, we men don't have a good track record of letting dinner be just that: dinner. So, I get that part of the issue and won't disagree with you on that one! However, I think that is another question and a bit of a side issue... and I see the text scrolling off the screen, I have typed far too much already!
I recently met a woman through eHarmony. We hit it off. I really thought she was the one. However, I don't think I'd survive in the deep South... that is where she lived. Further, she didn't want to leave her family. I was actually considering moving there so that I could be with her. We visited, and on the last night she turned and said "but you won't move here." She never gave me the chance to prove to her that I was actually considering exactly that. Note that she KNEW I've traveled a LOT and lived in a LOT of places (including the Deep South, granted, with the military).
I think this was evincing being too picky but more it was not being open minded. Not truly sure which category to put it in.
As a part of this, I am careful about talking finance. I don't want a women to think that I am poor but I don't want her to think I am a sugar daddy (this was part of her problem too). So, financial stability can be a subject about which someone can be too picky.
The worst is that I am a widower. I am not truly over my loss and I don't know that I ever really will be. I have had a couple (maybe a few) women hold that against me believing that I will never love them because of my love for my wife. It's not a competition any more than loving your parents, or family members, make it less possible to love someone else. I sometimes feel like I am asked to erase that part of my life and, I can't. Anymore than you can erase the memory of that first person you dated in High School, or the first person you made love with. It's a part of who I am (who we are) and if you like me, well, guess what, that's part of why you do like me. Also of note is that my wife died not wanting to be forgotten... so, I made the obvious promise and... lets' just say that I will NOT exact that promise from a loved one on MY deathbed... partially because I know that you can't forget a loved one. So, it's an empty promise. Partially because, as much as that is NOT the intention, it adds a burden to grief.
@Gnarloc My late prior wife was terrified of being forgotten too. I don't think she had entirely accepted her mortality, even when it was staring her in the face. I will be forgotten in pretty short order when I'm gone, and I've long since priced that in. It's part of being mortal.
Ironically people showed up from considerable distances to pay last respects at my wife's funeral, people who hadn't seen her since high school (almost 40 years), and not just to put in an appearance, but to tell me there was something special about her and they could NOT forget her. So she was far more memorable than she imagined she was. I wish she could have been a fly on the wall, it would have made her feel better.
Anyway ... I am remarried and it's been 11 years; I don't think of her on a daily basis but I DO remember and think about her -- and my son, and my brother, and my mother -- all the people who live on in my memory because they exited life "too soon" as well as of course those whose demise was "expected".
Did her desire to be remembered burden my grief? I don't think so. She would want my memories of her to be honest and un-forced. She never had children, and her elderly mother and aunt are going to die soon, so I am the last best receptacle of her memory, but I can't let that burden me or ruin my life even if that had been her desire. It's not sustainable OR reasonable.
I guess what I'm saying is don't let your wife's desire for a form of immortality impose on and diminish you. Remember her, appropriately and organically, and forgive her for asking more of you than was pertinent.
Now I am struggling to articulate properly.
I'll do so through anecdote (which I believe I have relayed elsewhere on Agnostic but, here goes). My father was a mortician/funeral director. He made is bread and butter on big funerals, expensive caskets, etc. That said, I am sure he knew which caskets were worth what for what reason. Me? If I had a casket, I'd take a pine box.
You also need to know that my dad was something of a skinflint. He'd do the cheapest he could get away with, for others... not for himself. He was selfish.
So, he had a big funeral, casket just so, and was in a mausoleum next to his mom and two of his wives (not my mom is of note).
Having set all of that up: not long before he passed, I was able to visit him (this might've been as little as two months before, time is a slippery concept for me). He was in his bedroom and he turned to me and said "I'll bet you are one of those cremation people!" He did say that with some rancor. I replied "I won't care, I'll be dead." He literally did a double take and I realized he'd never thought of it from that perspective! I wonder if he was thinking "oh, shit, I spent money for nothing!"
I still have that philosophy. Funerals are for the living. For those of us still walking around, pondering things, to gain some closure. To understand that "yep, this really is a done deal." Without it, you are always wondering if that person will walk around the corner. Sure, intellectually we KNOW that they are gone but some part of us will always question. Thus, the viewing of the body, and the funeral: closure. Finality. The ability to KNOW.
She's gone. I know she is. I was literally holding her in my arms when she left. I know the lat 12 words that we exchanged. I don't know that I will be able to forget (I am forgetting as I don't remember all of what we said that night and at one point could've repeated it all).
I remember the wedding. I remember the smell and feel of her hair... and other details that are far more important, certainly more happy to me.
The key is that when I am standing in that door, about to pass through, I don't want those who are tasked with living on to have any more burden than necessary. Intentional or otherwise. Well, save possibly for a joke phrase like "oh, it's so simple, I have to write that down..." and silence. Someone did die that way and I've always thought that was an excellent exit! Keep them wondering.
So, thanks for the thoughts and @mordant our experiences are eerily similar and I appreciate the help. It's a process, as you know, and, another part of this whole mess, I KNOW that if I had someone here with me, it'd be easier. I don't.... oh, I have friends they are just not where I want to live.
Oh, and for my part? They now have body farms where they just throw you in a field and you feed said field... THAT is the resting place for me. I told my sister to cremate me and flush me down the nearest toilet and forget me... what I really meant was to NOT worry on about me. I'm on to bigger and better things (or I am just resting and don't know it anymore). Either way, I am out of the equation, YOU the living are not. Go on. Remember me for the good times and that's about it. Same as I am (trying to do) doing with my wife.
@Akfishlady We won't be forgotten. At worst, we have the folks here who will remember us.
I got reacquainted recently to a former coworker, not in the same office or department yet we did speak over the phone occasionally. She is unable to be sincerely interested in someone else due to childhood trauma. It bothered me enough that I no longer call or contact her for company.
I think a guy living with his mom is a deal breaker if you're looking for real relationship. He can't be committed two places at once. I took care of my mom for a few years and I had a girlfriend but it wasn't anything serious. It's like my job now it would be just about impossible for me to put any time into a relationship so I'm not trying. I would like to go on a date or just do something with other people but I can't do much more than that. Some people have a hard time Knowing their own limitations and will run into any relationship and have no idea how they will make it work. Some people will go into a relationship with anyone they don't even know, how can that work. You need to be picky and set boundaries you can't rely on the other person to even know what they want out of life. On the other hand I would at least go out with someone who I found interesting even if I saw a couple red flags and talk about it. Make sure I'm not discarding someone because of what someone else did. It's ok to date 20 people until you find one that works. This is the first dating site I've ever been on and everyone puts out a lot of "deal breakers" There should be some off the bat but some should be case by case. Just my opinion. I've known some really cool people I never would have met if I put out a list of who's not good enough.
I think you're going to have a hard time getting many guys to answer this question, because from the perspective of most guys the question is going to immediately present itself as a mine-field. I think I'm going to respectfully decline to answer it as well for those same reasons. I'd answer if I didn't think my answer might be used against me at a future date. Ha ha ha!! Just kidding, but it is a question that's frought with peril.
Maybe a bit but I hate to generalize and I do understand their point of view. It's more risky for women so a bit of caution is called for. I know your post asked me got an example but I really can't think of one.
Picky isn't what I would be concerned about, being shallow is. Something both genders are guilty of.
As a general rule I would say us men get to be the picky ones. There's a reason it's called 'patriarchy' .
@jorj Unless I get a sense that you're 'reachable' this will be my only response to you. Sexism and misogyny are alive and well in this country and will remain so for the foreseeable future. I am not going to point out all the evidence in favor of this because if you are open to reality you can educate yourself. If you are a 'red piller' I completely wash my hands of you.
Too Picky would mean that you are ignoring emotionally healthy and available individuals in favor of being alone. I think I am too picky, but then again, maybe I only want the best. No one is perfect, but ignoring red flags is to invite misery.
That can be the case- Hyper Vigilance, it may be worthwhile to seek therapy after an abusive relationship to identify things in yourself that attract abusive people and sort out any bad behaviors you have adopted trying to cope with the abuser.
Some of them can be. Men can be picky too. Both genders I find have their gold diggers.
Yes BillaryBOTS won't pick me because I voted www.jill2016.com
I think I'm pretty picky. I don't feel like I have to be in a relationship, so it doesn't bother me that I've a low chance of meeting someone I'd approve of. I think it's unfair to the other person to overlook certain flaws, particularly some behavioral flaw they could work on for their next shot at a relationship. I don't expect to be treated any differently, and I'd even go so far to be wary of anyone that makes a move on me to hastily.
Just last month a woman, who had only met me once before, was getting very phisical and blatant with the signs she threw my way (touching shoulders, touching my knee, looking for eye contact with me, bringing up sexual topics in the group we were in). The first time we met, I did feel a tug of attraction, but I didn't feel like it was enough to warrant anything more than a friendship. I think it's unfortunate that she's most likely deflated to the point where we might not even be friends going forward, but it's a small loss compared to the train wreck any form of relationship she had in mind would be.