You're wrong. If the president's character is disgracing the country that is reason for impeachment. The idea that the President being accused of sexually assaulting over 20 women not being a terrible scar on the character and dignity of Presidency is ridiculous. Using your reasoning, a president could be discovered as a spy for a foreign country prior to being president and couldn't be removed for that. The House can impeach a president for whatever reason they want, that's why there's a Senate that actually does the removal.

Since I didn't say anything about any idealistic "best" I have no idea what that's even referencing, but it certainly didn't get us Trump. The Electoral College and Russian meddling got us Trump.

@redbai Article II, section 4: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Spying would certainly qualify as treason. There's no statute of limitations on that.

What you're arguing for is a Congress of the opposing party to vote to undo the results of the election, when the voters knew what a fucking piece of crap the candidate was and elected him anyway. I agree his conduct is a disgrace to the nation, but the knowledge was right out there in the open, and he won the election anyway. As sickening as each new revelation is, it doesn't change the argument for impeachment. It's not as if the people who voted for him are saying to themselves, "Gee, 19 women, he was okay to be President then, but now that it's 20, he should be out!"

Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about a sexual indiscretion that happened while in office. That was a legitimate high crime or misdemeanor. Trump should be investigated and impeached for his multiple blatant conflicts of interest, violations of the emoluments clause, foreign entanglements, and the fact that he obviously has favored foreign dictators when it is in his own financial interests; and his blocking of the Russia investigation among others. There's plenty to impeach him for that he's done while in office.

As to the rest;
You said, and I quote you, "But she's trying to make deals (a la Joe Biden) with despicable people that have already told her that they will only pass bills that give them everything they want with the Democrats compromising everything." This is an idealistic view, not a practical one. Compromise is the only way to get things done in a divided legislative branch.

My reference was to those who refused to vote for Hilary, because she was just "the lesser evil", so they threw their votes to Stein or whomever or simply didn't vote. That's how the vote was narrow enough for the Electoral College to be thrown to Trump, despite Clinton winning the nationwide popular vote; people made an idealistic choice and voted for the "best" candidate who didn't have a snowball's chance of winning. The same damn thing that killed Gore in Florida, 2000. And I'm still fucked off about that, too.

@Paul4747 No, I'm arguing that when it is obvious that an election has been stolen, it is ridiculously stupid for the nation to pretend like it hasn't and not do something that is actually relevant about it. If the country cannot remove a President who was illegally installed by a foreign government and is a serial rapist then our governmental processes are ridiculously irrelevant. Any argument to the contrary is simply a programmed response of respect for something that doesn't deserve it. Very common in American culture.

Bill Clinton was impeached because the Republicans at the time wanted him removed so the created a scenario in which to do it. The idea he was impeached because he lied about an affair is simply buying into the programmed response the media has perpetuated over the years to make it seem as if it was actually not the ridiculous circus that it was.

The 2016 vote was so narrow because Russians interfered and white voters voted in majorities for a person who, if he were not a white man, wouldn't have even had a chance at being the candidate let alone win the election. Blaming voters who didn't vote for Trump for the actions of those that did vote for Trump despite his disgusting resume is just more of the ridiculous programming Americans accept instead of accepting the fact that things are so screwed up that a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic sexual predator can not only become POTUS, but actually has a chance at a second term.

And Democrats twiddle their thumbs in despair hoping someone will come and save us instead of using their powers to do something about it.

@redbai Had Clinton won, the Republicans would be making the exact same arguments about a "stolen election". They would be up in arms about the Steele dossier and her friendly contacts with foreign diplomats (not that those have a damn thing to do with the election).

Russian interference influenced the vote, undeniably. But nobody put a gun to anybody's head. Americans voted as they voted. Clinton won the popular vote. Through a fluke of the Electoral College mechanics, Trump won the election.

Nobody stole anything. Nobody was "illegally installed". Your anger and bitterness are clear but also misplaced.

Your wording implies that the Constitution doesn't deserve respect. Which form of government would you prefer?

@Paul4747 I won't bother to ask you how you would know what would happen in alternate universes. I can make up alternate universes where I define reality too, but I don't see the point as it is irrrelevant to reality. Kind of like gods.

"Russian interference influenced the vote, undeniably. But nobody put a gun to anybody's head."

Well, since I never said anyone had a gun put to their head, instead I'll point out that the way that Russians interferred created the same result as if someone were forced, a flawed election. Plus, there is evidence that the Russians accessed voting machines.

[rollcall.com]

It wasn't a "fluke", Russian interference was strategically planned scenario to get specific results. Trump's campaign didn't send polling information about the three swing states to Russian through his son-in-law and campaign manager, that gave Trump the election by accident.

Your desire to define me as angry and bitter is pathetic. However, your inferences about how I feel about the constitution are correct. I don't "respect" the constitution any more than I "respect" the bible. Both are simply documents. Pieces of paper that have things written on them. There are some ideas expressed in it that I find beneficial, but respect? Nope. A document that enshrines white supremacy is not something that deserves respect.

I would prefer a "real" democracy and not something created by slave-holders to give white men power over everyone else.

@redbai This conversation has been futile. Nice talking to you.