IF YOU SAY YOU "BELIEVE", IS THAT ADMITTING YOU DO NOT KNOW, & IS KNOWLEDGE EVEN POSSIBLE?
When people say they believe, that statement seems to imply they do not know, as knowledge seems incompatible with belief. Belief is a value judgment, while knowing is a fact based statement based on evidence.
But science tells us nothing is definitely known. We can only have probability of truth, not absolute certainty.
So how do you square this circle?
1
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
3 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.We only have knowledge of past events, and then only those events we have experienced. Regarding past events outside our experience we have only belief. The future has not been determined so we can have only uncertain belief about future events as well.
Knowledge, belief, disbelief, experience, time and space are all human mind things that have meaning only in the human context. They are illusions that we need, but from a cosmic perspective they are meaningless.
“Truth” in its higher meaning, is ultimate reality beyond the senses. Truth can not be seen or understood in terms of our space/time/matter model.
There is another meaning for truth. An assertion is adjudged to be true with respect to a given logical system if it can be logically derived from the assumptions and definitions of that system. If an assertion is true it will be in accord with the system’s previously established assertions. In that sense truth is nothing but a value judgment pertaining to an assertion. What is true for one person might be false for another.
Obviously if one of your basic assumptions is that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, literally true in every word, then your belief system will be different than those who make no such assumption.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
Sep 19, 2019
0
As many witnesses in court have shown, memory of past events is very fallible, & so we can only say we have assumptions about past events we have eprerienced, not knowledge. These assumptions may be false, as there are many false memories. They are easy to implant.
Truth, if it is beyond the senses & cannot be understood in our space/time/matter model, does not exist in any mode we can determine. The idea of an "ultimate truth" beyond our understanding is a meaningless fantasy. It does not affect the price of potatoes, so what good is it. It has been used through history as a beacon for fools.
Truth can have a logical meaning as a conclusion that flows from the previous premises. A "conclusion" is an assumption, merely an assertion. You are right this is value judgement, not an absolute truth. It may be more or less probable, but it is not certain.
Also logic has no definite connection to reality, which must be determined empirically, so these proofs are only logical "proofs". They do not show what really exists.
Simple there can never be absolute certainty of truth from either, you can only make approaches to the truth and try to find the closest position you can. Which usually means that which is supported by the most evidence and most resists disproof. That is why science works by disproof.
If I throw a dart at a dart board, I can never get a dead center bulls eye. Even when I think I have, if I get a very fine ruler then it will possibly be a little off, and if that still shows a dead center, then a microscope will probably show that it is still a little wrong. Science has been deplored by some theists because its approach can never produce absolute truth, but only approximates. But religion/belief only fakes absolute truth, they throw the dart through the door of the games room without switching the light on, close the door and declare a dead center bulls eye. Then threaten anyone who argues they may not have won, or who wants to look, with a punch on the nose, or hell fire whatever.
That is why science is the philosophy of humility and admiting what you don't know, while religion is the philosophy of pride, pretending to all knowledge.
Fernapple
Level 9
Sep 19, 2019
1
Knowledge, if it exists at all, is only temporary, as it can always be disproven. Knowledge is provisional, not absolute. It is an assumption based on value judgment, not the apparent evidence.
Science progresses by disproof, not proof. In the true scientific attitude, everything is open to question, even the most revered apparent facts, laws, & theories. Science progresses by disproving, not primarily by proving.
Religion is the realm of imagination & pride. Religious people have the arrogance to reify their imaginings & call them ultimate truth. I like that saying by Montaigne, "Man cannot make a flea, but he makes gods by the dozens"
A belief, I think is weaker in knowledge and intentions than a dream or goal.
What is stronger for me is love and work. Work is love made visible. Imagination is more important than knowledge. From the experience is knowing. The result is beauty as truth.
Castlepaloma
Level 8
Sep 19, 2019
1
Many beliefs are very light on anything that can be called "knowledge". There is an important difference between a belief & a dream or goal. A belief may be about what is going to happen, but the believer thinks it is real. A dream or goal is what the dreamer hopes will happen
Freud said love & work are the essence of our life, but I don't believe they are the same. Some people love their work, but not everybody. Work is not love made visable but necessity or desire made visable
Einstein & Napoleon said imagination is more important than knowledge. Napoleon said "Imagination rules the world". But imagination requires work to make it real, & the only thing that can motivate this work is passion, which may be translated as "love". So really "Love rules the world"
I don't believe beauty manifests as truth. Truth is sometimes beautiful, but it can also be horrible. We have a human wish truth will be beautiful, that is what much of religion is built on, but to believe that we much deny the horror around us
Being artist I thrive to find Beauty in my work and actually Dream for a living with deadlines. A desire made visable is better said.
The Beauty of Yin & Yang. In all experiences, there is the Yin and the Yang. ... The concept of Yin/Yang creates a wholeness that is at the true essence of our soul/spirit/human experience. The interesting truth surrounding Yin/Yang, is that nothing is ever black and white in its essence.
@Castlepaloma True creativity is desire, or we might say passion, made real & visable. To dream for a living & create beauty is my idea of heaven, but we must always remember, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" It is a value judgment, not a thing.
Reality is based on duality--Yin & Yang, light & dark, up & down, beauty & horror. Everything contains its opposite, as shown by the dots of the opposite on each side of Yin/Yang. Together they form a wholeness that is our existential experience . But whether we have a soul or spirit seems debatable. These may be concept without content & used only in the poetic sense
There is a wide range of ideas and definition of a soul and spirit making it very open ended.
For me spiritual is the 99% unknowns .Until desired spirits in part from outside my own universe circle. Get taken or pulled in my circle then manifested into my ego self, I master it in time.
The soul Is immaterial part of a human being or animal. It is like a million parts of you that makes up your soul your name, country, blood
emotional or intellectual energy or intensity etc...
Things get really lost in space when we regarded a soul as immortal. Who knows, where our energy gose, it could be reincarnated into anything. Or Pass on in our DNA to the our children. Possible a Jelly fish can be considered immoral living for 600 million years with no end in sight.
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.