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Living as I do in the UK, I don't tend to be surrounded by obsessive Christian types. Most of the people I come in contact with are either non-believers or religious people who keep their beliefs to themselves. I don't feel like an outsider being an atheist as I might if I lived in parts of the US or some other countries.

However there are other areas of my life where I seem to be on the receiving end of comments and criticism. I'm thinking of my decision not to raise a family. I never wanted children and my wife (who sadly I'm now separated from) feels the same. I'm 53 and have taken steps to prevent becoming a father so it's definitely not going to happen. But in the family oriented world I seem to inhabit a lot of people don't seem to be able to accept this as normal. It seems perfectly acceptable for 16 year old girls to pop out a few babies who they can't support, but less acceptable for someone like me to make a conscious decision not to reproduce. It's not as if I'm a white rhino (touche), we're hardly likely to go extinct any time soon.

I found this recently when chatting to a lady of a similar age. She was a grandmother and was telling me about her family. She didn't seem to be able to accept my perfectly reasonable decision not to be a father. And it's not as if I don't like children, I have two fabulous nephews who I adore, I just didn't want any of my own.

How do others feel about this? Are there other things that fall into this category?

ITguy64 5 Mar 24
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11 comments

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I think I was born not wanting children although as the youngest of four I did a lot of babysitting (I mean a lot!) from 8-18 and although I enjoyed it never got a maternal twinge....Only to be told several times by my mother it's because I must be selfish. I thought about it over the years and came to the conclusion that I still believe. The world really will survive and perhaps even prosper a little better without a mini me! On the other hand I have occasionally felt guilty when I watch historical documentaries and think wow the fact that someone in my past put up a massive fight for survival only for me to decide, errr no! So I just don't take it for granted that I had a choice and luckily my sibling have lots of Children ?

I really object to this attitude that not having children is selfish. In fact I think it is the opposite. People have children for selfish reasons, because they want to have them. They don't have children for the survival of the species, we're not going to go extinct by not reproducing, we're more likely to destroy ourselves through overpopulation.

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I am so bored by people who talk about their family as if it was the most interesting thing in the world - My family were shockingly awful and abusive I may be jaundiced by this experience yet -I know I am not alone in this there is some weird idealised vision of 'family' all cosy and smart and I'd love to know how much of that is 'real' I am prepared to think that here are some great families out there but I wonder if they are prepared to think that there are some seriously crap ones!

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I'm also in the UK and agree totally with your comments about religion in this country. I have children myself, started late in fact I was 43 when my first arrived, but think it's a shame that your perfectly reasonable decison not to have children can't be accepted and respected.

I know of some women who haven't had children and unless I know them very well I wouldn't ask why, as it may be a medical reason and therefore distressing to them. But haven't honestly met, chatted with or known of a guy who's made your decision but I guess the same criteria would apply, I wouldn't ask through fear of giving distress.

I would have though the vast majority of people on here would accept your views without batting an eyelid. 🙂

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I'm single without kids; I lived almost all my life in a very conservative town in Mexico and as you said, it's more acceptable to be a bad single mother at 16 than to decide not to have children. Many, many times I was told I should have a child, because "who is going to take care of you when you are old?" To me, that is the selfiest motive to have children.
Now, living in US it's pretty much the same, people look at me as if I were a martian when I say I do not have children but at least they do not do silly comments on that.

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It's nobody else's goddamn business, as far as I'm concerned, whether or not you choose to have children. I'm glad I have the daughter I do, but 1 was enough for me. Never could understand how people could think they know what's best for another.

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Don't come to Northern Ireland its even worse than what you describe over tehre where I was born and raised - and relationships are paramount and knowing everyones name to the nth generation. I have so many conversations that start off sane and end up in that - talking about people to the n'th generation. Its hard to be different I empathise and sympathise. if you arent bothered about the person saying this to you - YOu could always have forgotten to turn the gas off........

I love that windy northern coast.

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I think anything outside social norms is challenging for people who were careful to do what they were "supposed" to do in life. And/or, who simply want to put you in a comfortable box.

My wife and I moved to the town we're in basically because we WANTED to. Our nest was empty, we were both independent consultants / teleworkers, didn't care that much for a town we had put up living in for the sake of family stability, and had the freedom to live wherever we want. We ended up chosing a theoretically progressive / inclusive community, and yet, the questions we were asked were invariably "how long have you lived here" (are you one of us or not, in other words) and "why did you move here". It got so tiresome to explain ourselves that we ended up just half-lying and saying we moved here to be close to family. That satisfied people and they did not pry further.

It is slightly true we moved here to at least TRY to land somewhere close to where our kids might end up. It's true that after the fact, my son moved to live near us. But it wasn't true in the sense that people ASSUMED it was true -- that we had settled family in the community that we wanted to live very close to. But it was useful to let them believe that, because it's just WEIRD to move someplace because you researched the area and like it for your OWN reasons. If we didn't have family here or didn't work for the area's major employer or weren't at least transferred here, that was some kind of red flag and a source of great puzzlement.

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I have just posted a comment .. apologies , it should have been a reply to Proslice56.

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I do apologise sir , but I took the post to be about the persons choice involving having children ....I don't really understand you diatribe about Islam , Free Speech etc .

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The UK has a very real Islamic problem. They also have a serious authoritarian progressive anti free speech problem. Then again lets not get into the rampant muslim child rape sex scandle in the UK. Christianity is a problem but not quite up to the standards of death and destruction of Islam. #freecountdankula

I'm interested in your views on the UK and its religious problems. What issues have you met here? Generally we tend to pride ourselves on having a pretty relaxed attitude to religious belief and to freedom of speech too. Can you explain further?

I have recently had several Americans tell me that the UK has a major Islam problem. Strangely we do not generally see this. On the whole, Muslims live in harmony with the rest of us. Odd how Americans know such a lot more than we do about our own country.

I would suggest that the USA has a much bigger problem with Christians that we do with Muslims. And generally the Muslims in the UK don't have guns.

But how is this relevant to my original question?

Seems you 'know a great deal about our country'....not really.

Have you ever been to my country?
Do you even own a passport or have even left your own continent?
We don't have an Islam problem at all.
THE LIFE IN THE UK TEST is the population of the UK of which is Muslim the correct answer is 5%. 5% IS NOT a muslim problem as per your question.

I think this answer is thinly disguised racism to be honest.,

@ITguy64 Let me see if I can explain it to you. Christians aren't setting up sharia no-go zones, beating gays, setting up rape rooms and grooming little girls. That is to say who gives a shit about Christians when the mother of all problems is right in front of you! Your government is making a big move on ending free speech. Ask how a man gets sent to jail for setting a bacon sandwich in front of a mosque and is killed while in prison. Insulting a frigging religion is a death sentence in your country. Freedom of expression as you call it is decided by a progressive SJW judge. When another atheist says he doesn't have an Islam problem in your country putting his emotional feeling and progressive agenda above your countries children's safety then you may want to do some searching on the internet. Your public officials do everything they can to cover it up. I really do care about your children's future. Don't take my word for it. Look it up yourself.

@Pensionista All religions are a problem. Some more than others. Freedom of speech is nonexistent in your country. You call it freedom of expression and it has limitations. Listen to Tommy Robinson, Sargon of Akkad, and Black Pigeon Speaks. Just because the progressives say there is nothing to see here! doesn't mean they're telling the truth. The progressive agenda is alive and well and they have been put there under the guise of feel-good diversity enrichment legislation. You may think you live in a democratic society but it is evolving into a regressive authoritative dictatorship. Search the headlines as it pertains to Muslim grooming gangs in your country.Then search YouTube for the stuff you can't find in your countries mainstream media. The BBC is the biggest offender of the coverup next to your public officials.

@Gilgamesh155326 By the way chucklehead what race is muslim? Best way to end a discussion is throwing out the racism card as you have no argument.

@Gilgamesh155326 Agree absolutely. I think the USA has a very distorted view of the UK, thanks largely to our press and to Nigel Farage, who the Americans treat as far more important than he really is.

@Proslice56 It sounds as if your experience of the UK is all from a small portion of the internet. The people and organisations you mention are tiny and of minimal importance in British society. The far-right in the UK is very much less important than in the USA and fortunately they have no guns. Of course we have criminals who are muslims just as we have criminals who no doubt claim to be christians when they are in prison, and a fair number of those convicted of grooming and abusing vulnerable young women are from Eastern Europe. I think part of the problem may be that if you come from an authoritarian, male-dominated society, and are of a criminal tendency, our relaxed way of life in the UK makes you think young women who have freedom are fair game. We need to educate our immigrants more thoroughly in the British way of life.

@Gilgamesh155326

The Battle of Cable Street was a riot that took place on Sunday 4 October 1936 in Cable Street in the East End of London. It was a clash between the Metropolitan Police, sent to protect a march by members of the British Union of Fascists[1] led by Oswald Mosley, and various anti-fascist demonstrators, including local anarchist, communist, Irish, Jewish and socialist groups. The majority of both marchers and counter-protesters travelled into the area for this purpose.he Fascists are more of a problem to me than religious people I

There is an element of grooming and similar issues as you say, but seriously, it's tiny, and people have been prosecuted for it. The way you describe it sounds like an epidemic, and it's really not, it's just a few pockets in a few areas.

And as I asked before, how is this in any way relevant to my original question? Why have you hijacked my thread for something unrelated.

You say, "I really do care about your children's future". Did you even read the original question or just pick up on the fact that I'm British. I DON'T HAVE ANY CHILDREN!!! That was the point of my thread.

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My only sister never had kids at 60. My best friend and her husband are 63 and never had kids. Several of their friends never had kids and/or their kids are grown with kids of their own. I won't be having nieces, nephews, grandkids - I'm ok with that. I'm a free spirit.

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