We don't have a word for non-believers of Santa Claus or non-believers of The Tooth Fairy, yet we live in a world where those who don't believe in God(s) or supernatural religious philosophies are labelled Atheists. I think that the state of non-believing is the normal state of things as it doesn't need to be taught, unlike religions. I am consequently uncomfortable with using the word and I feel that I concede grounds to their insanity when I use it. What are your thoughts?
I'm okay with the term, but then I'm compelled to point out that I'm afootballist and abaseballist, as well.
I don't get invited to many parties.
LOL! Have a party by yourself. Make it a life long habit. I do.
I had to visit the ER last week and found my hospital system doesn't have a box for "Atheist" in their religion list. The closest the guy could find was "Not Affiliated". I was tempted to snatch the clipboard out of his hand and look for myself, except that my leg was in a crapton of pain and I couldn't be bothered.
How about "Nay-Theist"?
Hello!!!! Shouldn't have... it was a religion list you said!!!! Atheism is not a religion. Hello!!!! But hope you feeling way much better.
I boldly answer that I am an Atheist with Buddhist philosophy and Wiccan holidays
I was a Wiccan from ages 15 to about 40....really involved in rituals and coven membership/leadership. I did a lot of activism that resulted in the DoD recognizing paganism as a religion and allowing the Pentagram to be on military headstones. This resulted in a LOT of new recognitions by the DoD and bases being opened to all religions and religious meetings.
I had always "dabbled" in Buddhism since I earned a BA in Comparative Religions and attended seminary graduating in 1993. I even ran a marriage chapel/reception hall at a huge touristy spot for a while. I've performed over 3000 weddings and I also do funerals for pagans, atheists, and other non-traditional paths.
I now attend a Buddhist group for meetings, meditation, and chanting...but I still also hang out with the local pagans on their holidays because it's enjoyable and they are good people.
yes...that's me in the photo from my Wiccan days
There are many definitions of "atheism" and "agnosticism." Some are, perhaps, useful in detailed philosophical discussions; others are more useful in everyday conversations. Those are the ones I'm going to discuss here.
Most people, when they talk about "atheists," mean "people who don't believe in gods." Again, in a philosophical or theological discussion, it might be useful to make a distinction between people who think gods are theoretically possible but not likely to exist in reality and others who believe they can't possible exist. But the end result is the same: there are people who—for whatever reason—disbelieve in gods.
That is, their mental model of the universe doesn't include gods in it. To them, "Do gods exist?" is a closed question. It's either closed because they think it's impossible or closed because they have no more reason to believe in gods than they do to believe in elves. You may think they're wrong. Maybe you think gods are more likely than elves. But that is what they believe. In any case, the point is that these folks (and I'm one of them) don't actively ask the question "Do gods exist?" They already have an answer. (As do theists: in their case, the opposite answer.)
Most people, when they talk about "agnostics," mean either "people who are unsure whether or not gods exist" or "people who think it's pointless to claim that gods exist and equally pointless to claim that they don't, because the question can never be answered." In either case, these are people who, when asked whether or not they believe gods exist, say, "I don't know," whereas atheists say, "No." That's a clear difference.
There are people who really do believe in gods.
There are people who really don't believe in gods.
There are people who really have no belief either way.
All of those types of people actually exist, and it's useful to have labels for them. If we call the first type "theists", the second type "atheists," and the third type "agnostics," a member of the last group would simply be descriptive if he called himself "agnostic." He wouldn't be "without balls." He would be a person accurately describing his beliefs.
It's possibly easier to see this if we take gods out of the picture and use an analogy: ESP. There are people who really, truly believe ESP exists. There are people who really, truly don't believe it exists. And there are people who are really, truly unsure.
I'd like to end by dispelling two myths: The first is that belief is a choice. I suspect it is—or partly is—for some people, but it isn't for all people. I know, because it's not a choice for me. Yet some folks seem to have this idea that we're presented with three options—theism, agnosticism, and atheism—and that anyone who picks the middle one is weak willed.
But if I tell you I don't know who is going to win next year's Superbowl, I'm not weak willed: I'm simply telling you the truth. I don't know. I can't screw up my courage and make myself know. It's not a choice for me. If you offer me five thousand dollars to make myself believe some team is going to win, I'll have to either lie or let you keep your money. (Which sucks, because I could use it!)
A true agnostic could also lie. He could say he's a believer or non-believer. He could go to church and behave like a believer. Or he could ... I don't know ... read "The God Delusion" and tell everyone he doesn't believe in gods. But if the truth is that he doesn't know whether or not gods exist (or if he believes it's impossible to know), this would all be a sham. The truth is, he's agnostic.
(The middle-man always seems to have trouble. Bisexual people get pressured into calling themselves gay or straight. But the actual truth—regardless of what they call themselves—is that they're attracted to both men and women.
Sometimes the pressure is political. When people claim agnostics lack balls, I wonder if they mean, "Look, I don't care what you actually believe, but pick a side! There's a war on, and we need to know if you're for us or against us!" )
The second myth is that everyone has a belief. I've been surprised by this many times:
Someone: Do you believe we'll discover there was once life on Mars?
Me: I don't know.
Someone: No, you don't understand. I know you can't know for sure what's going to happen in the future. I'm asking what you believe?
Me: As I said, I don't know. I really don't.
Someone: Look, I'm not asking what you can prove. I just want to know what you believe!
Me: I don't have a belief! That's why I keep saying, "I don't know." I don't know means I don't know. And I really don't know.
Someone: Argh!
It seems that there's one sort of mind—the kind "Someone" has in the above dialogue—that pretty much always forms a belief. That doesn't mean the believer is sure. He may readily admit that his belief is just a hunch. Still, his belief exists. He's leaning towards a particular hypothesis. For him, it's impossible to not doing that. So he can't understand the way my mind works. I have trouble understanding his mindset, too, but I've encountered it often enough to be familiar with it.
If you want to know which type of mind you have, try the following thought experiment: Tomorrow, I'm going to flip a coin. Do you believe it will land as heads or tails? I realize you can't know, but what do you believe? (You can interpret "believe" any way you want: having a hunch, visualizing an outcome, knowing, feeling certain, giving it your best guess...)
As you might suspect, given how I described my mind, I have no belief about the coin's fate. None. Nada. Zilch. If agnosticism was about coin flips instead of gods, I would be an agnostic, and it wouldn't be because I don't have the balls to "chose" atheism or admit that I'm an atheist.
Very good rant, JohnSmith. Agree.
The reason there has to be a word for us that have no belief in the gods, is that the majority of this country is batshit crazy when it comes to god belief. They want to enact laws from their religion, and deny science and reason because it contradicts their fairy tales. If it was an innocent delusion like a belief in ghosts, there would be no reason to make a stand against it.
I think the escapism is what the story is in aid of and the innocent delusion you mention would take centre stage and become the proud successor of the god story, peopel will always want to escape their reality and the promise of heaven would be perfect for the ghost god ;actually isnt there already a holy ghost
I consider myself to be a "being" of the Cosmos and could not give a flying fudge what anyone thinks. I have a problem with authority figures anyway, so god is the so-called ultimate in that dept. I do not like people "lording" over me with their fairytales and thinking they are superior because they know the truth and I don't. Never have so many people been bamboozled by so few, ( insert church here ) in the history of humanity than by the god story.
I think it helps people understand how many of us there are if we don't skirt around it with agnostic. It's not well understood that a much larger minority in america is secullar because there's naturally the fear with labeling yourself. To say agnostic is true because it can't be known without evidence but it also sounds like we're on the fence. I like to say agnostic atheist because it clears the muddy waters. Agnosticism is a claim to not know atheism a claim to not believe.
Great comment. I agree ,Agnostic is saying if there is s god I believe .the atheist wants proof that a Devine eternal creator exists. Burden of proof on the godly. I have learned through the comments and various videos just how dominant and powerful Christianity in certain parts of America is. Many of my American cutural , political and even comedic heros are Christian. safe zone , accepted by God fearing salt of the earth folk. Faith, in a creator . Sounds simple . Not for we Atheists though. It just sounds silly.
I disagree. Agnosticism is not "not knowing", it's inability to know in general. Atheism is simply denying the existence of god(s). One can be gnostic or agnostic atheist. Those saying "man, idk if there is a god" are just those who don't know, perhaps? But I wouldn't call them agnostics. People tend to throw around the terms loosely without really paying much attention to the meaning, and I think it breeds many issues.
Have nothing against the word but the definition used for the word by those who believe is wrong. There is no way to prove the non-existence of a god or for that matter the existence of a god. I call myself an Atheist because I have seen no evidence of any god. I am 99.999999% sure that no gods exist. Should that 0.000001% prove to be true I would have to ask god why he/she/it didn't provide evidence to base a belief on.
Very well stated. Atheism isn't God doesn't exist, it's I see no rational reason to believe on does exist.
i love telling people im athiest, anytime i hear god bless you , i mention it
I just ignore it - after all they mean well, even though in my opinion they are wrong, that is my opinion and I don't want to hurt feelings or belittle others . In the end, it doesn't matter. Not to them, nor to me. I always try to be kind to all.
@FlaGoldenGirl that is the right path to take , im just so sick of feeling like a mutant for my beliefs, I lash out from time to time , they will get over it im sure
Atheism does need to be taught. At some point, people will have questions. Certainly, you can turn down the "answers" given by religion, but that still leaves you with questions. Since most questions are about the nature of the natural world, Science has the answers to those questions. When the questions turn to the more philosophical, perhaps there should be a dedicated source for answers. The religious certainly mine those doubts to their cause.
I try to avoid labels for myself. I've never thought about representing myself as atheist or non-theist. I do, however, cringe when I find myself calling myself a vegetarian. It means I have slipped into a defining concept for myself. I don't eat meat but this doesn't warrant a descriptor. Vegetarian, atheist, public servant, all these labels detract from who or what we are away from the glare of presenting a social face.
I agree. We don't nd to explain. We are what we are.
I was told by an agnostic coworker that I was the most militant atheist he knows. I truly think he was responding to my comfort level with being an atheist and an antitheist. I think when I truly came to understand how sad and silly religion is, it truly cemented my comfort level in my own beliefs. I'm pretty much through being passive when someone else tries to shove their religion on me. I'm me, love me or hate me, I'm still going to be me.
I have considered myself To be 'atheist' for quite a while, but lately have considered the term 'agnostic atheist' to be (for the moment) a closer fit. That is, I don't believe,that god(s) exist, but accept that I can't prove it, so can't claim an evidentiary conclusion.
I don't refer to myself as Atheist or Agnostic. I prefer the term Rationalist. My beliefs are rooted in science, which does not make claims that cannot be proven, yet acknowledges that not all the facts are known.
I suppose it's a bit like Afireman or Amountaineer or Adoctor. Because I'm all of them too.
I am a doctor but I don’t demand everyone define themselves as adoctoral. I guess that was your point. To be defined by what you are not is a little ridiculous.
It's the best description that everyone understands clearly - I love it. I really don't care if it is stigmatized. Besides, you can stigmatize anything, so it's not about the atheist, but the persons perception of it. I am a very proud, life long atheist and really no longer care what others think of that.
It must be a wonderful think to have absolute truth, so much so that no discussion is necessary anymore. But is this not dogmatic just as much as some/most religions are dogmatic???
@Gripster31 No, not dogmatic. It just stops people from proselytizing and let's others know that without faith, I love hearing facts, which are subject to change, while faith is more fixed and based on fantasies in the absence of facts. I find the word 'Atheist' a practical description - unless a better catch word comes along.
@Gripster31 I am lot's of other things - some are life long and some things come and go. I can be a bitch or I can be a hero....get what I mean?
@BrigittaCuadros facts are objective. What is often changing is our understanding of their meaningk
Atheist is the accurate term for what I am, but I hate it when people confuse atheists with antitheists. I respect all beliefs and wish that in turn, my own will be respected. I'm always willing to admit I could be wrong (though my beliefs are strong).
Haha, I "came out" about 3 years ago to my family. We were raised strict Catholic. I now have no problem telling anyone how I feel. I am at the age where I am comfortable in my own skin. I don't owe anyone an explanation.
I don't like the idea that it sounds like a Theist, which we are not.
I have identified publicly as an athiest for years. (I'm 78.) I'd be more embarrassed to say I believe in fairies or imaginary (white) men in robes controlling us! Is a god possible? Perhaps. But every mainstrean religion is based on a pagan religion from centuries ago - long before there was any scientific study. So, not probable.