I know it sounds strange and all, but I'm kind of confused about certain things.
I say to those close to me that I am an atheist, that I don't believe in God and I don't follow the Bible.
But I have to say that I'm interested in the concept of a higher force who created us, even though I have no proof of that. Like, a force that created the universe and all that, but it doesn't require or demands our love and extreme obedience.
So can I still be considered an atheist or a deist? What are your thoughts on that?
The online dictionary.com shows 2 definitions for deism: 1- belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation; and 2- belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
What you descibe sound a bit like the socond definition. How firm is your belief? I have read that agnostics are sometimes classified as atheist agnostics and theist agnostics. Would one of these apply to your belief any better than deism?
As far I am concerned, how you classify yourself is far less important than how you behave toward yourself and others. Take as much time as you want/need to work out what you believe and what you classify yourself as.
There is no reason to create a fantasy realm where gods, devils, angles, demons dwell in order to have someone or something to create the universe. Nature, and the laws that govern it, is capable of creating the universe and everything that exists in it. Nothing else is needed. In my opinion.
You are whatever you think you are.
What other people want to label you is irrelevant.
Only you can determine who or what you are.
If you have questions about definitions of words, consult a dictionary.
Never ask others what they think words mean.
We're living in a society that can't agree on the difference between fact
and fiction.
You can call yourself an agnostic atheist. You don't believe in gods, but you are open to the idea that there might be gods.
I think if you become more familiar with evolution and mechanical determinism you will give up on deism.
I think deism could work with those though... especially evolution. It makes a little sense, if there was "something" that set everything in motion and then had no control whatsoever over the direction it went and the end products.
Well said. Hard Determinism for the win.
@HumanistA I see your point. You are refering to the "God of the Gaps". When things are unknown and we want an answer we sometimes resort to saying there must be a god who did it.
Have you though that possibly there does NOT have to be a beginning and end of matter? Therefore there does not have to be a creation or a creator - just a change of ` form ' Matter into energy and vice versa? .
This is where cutting edge of science is now.
'Creator of the world' is only a theory.
So, you seem to be at the correct place. This is definition of agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
Terms are kind of good for abstract thought, but it is what you actually do that matters. For instance many Christians, Muslims, etc. will play quite a bit of lip service to the god they've been taught, but only actually attend their religious services. So what they actually do is talk a lot about stuff they've been taught and attend, with others, the religious meetings they're supposed to but don't actually DO any of they stuff they talk about. Are the Christians, Muslims, etc.? I think you see the point.
I am an atheist: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. To me it is absurd to not recognize the reason these philosophies came about (to civilize the human animal), the fact that there have been and are literally thousands of them (a great business model that earns money, power and prestige by offering no real product or service, just a whole bunch of words telling others what htey should do), and in 8500 years of human recorded history these ideas have never had a single piece of verifiable evidence to support any of their claims. To each his/her own.
In your journey I'd urge you, like I would persons of religious faiths, to avoid having to defend whatever conclusion you arrive at. It is a personal decision and you need not defend it to anyone. Find your happiness, live and love it. Others might want to do the same.
You sound like an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic with strong atheist leanings, which is what I also am. Your use of the phrase "interested in the concept" as opposed to "believe" rules out deism. Deists are believers.
I'm open to the possibility that there may be some sort of creative intelligence behind the uni[multi?]verse, but there's obviously no way to verify that. So, my default position is atheism.
The trouble with the concept of a god is that it just pushes the evolution theory further back. Did this higher force just spring into a fully cognizant being out if nowhere or did it have to evolve into being.. And if you accept accept that it is unlikely to have just suddenly come into existence but must have evolved then why do we need to have it at all. Maybe we are evolving gods, certainly my dog would think so if he had a metaphysical bent. But that is unlikely as we're more likely to destroy ourselves before that can happen.
I would question the assumption that the universe was created.
@anglophone At this point in my existence so would I. Christians claim creation but when it comes to their god "he always existed." It contradicts and is not an answer.
@DenoPenno Not only that, it also makes an unwarranted assumption about the nature of time. They are taking the Newtonian view of space and time rather than the Einsteinian view of space-time.
I was raised in a Southern Baptist home, and never really seriously questioned it until I was 32. That's when I got serious about my religious beliefs, and wanted to find as much as possible about God. I read the Bible a lot, and in the process quit believing it was the word of God. The more I learned about Christianity, the less I wanted to be part of it, which led me to Pantheism, then Deism and finally Atheism. I found out in my questioning, that no evidence of God had ever really been discovered. I don't see any reason to believe in God, Bigfoot, the Tooth Fairy, essential oils or anything without enough evidence to warrant it.
With that said, if you are convinced there was a prime mover, I don't see a whole lot wrong with it. Other than a lack of evidence.
Your beliefs are your own. I don't believe in God but I never say "there is no God ". Why? Simply because I don't know.
I kinda like deism as a fun idea to throw around, because I’ve found that many theists, specifically those who believe in a “personal relationship” with a god, find it especially distressing. Classical deism came from the period around the Enlightenment, used by folks who didn’t believe in god in a time when declaring yourself an outright atheist was still too dangerous. So, yeah: a creator god may exist, but he moved on to do other stuff long ago and doesn’t give a sh*t about creation or you. Most believers don’t know how to react to that, and I enjoy the discombobulation!
I agree, but living in NYC area I can be an atheist if I chose, but my brain is not big enough to understand how this all just happened. As a HS buddy/scientist, maybe here, says "Happy Accident". He like myself, went to 12 years of catlick school. But to your points I agree. If there is a creator god, that god has moved on , I will add that god is Shiva, the destroyer of worlds and bringer of life. Constant making of new iterations of life.
I think god(he/she/it/they) just like kids build with blocks grooove on the look then knock it down.
You sound like an agnostic atheist. You have no faith that god exists, (atheist), but you are open to the possibility of a deity/ have no faith that a god doesn’t exist either, (agnostic).
Very rational if you ask me, of course I could be biased
Do you believe in the Deist God?
OR
do you just find the notion appealing, interesting ect?
perhaps and Atheist with an open mind?
The question of there being a higher power, for me anyway, would be how much intent and intelligence does it have and is there really any kind of plan or just random decisions. I dont' believe in such a power, but that is the direction my mind would go.
you do not sound atheist for sure. i would say you are Agnostic.
How about just say I am confused but please do not preach to me or at me. Let me be confused.
I suspect he wants to consider more information.
I am an agnostic - anti-theist.
I'm with Penn Jillette on this:
Agnostic and atheist answer two different questions:
We cannot know fur shur how our universe started: AGNOSTIC (without knowledge)
There ain't no all-powerful invisible critters fucking with humans on the earth: ATHEIST (there is no reliable proof of such beings)
And I agree with Sam, and Christopher,... I am an anti-theist because I oppose religionists imposing their mental illness on all us good folks.
Theist, deist, atheist ... how about just an I am. Is there really any need for more?
Only if you want to live in certain places, here in NYC area, no one will care, perhaps the same in London and Moscow, Rome and Paris.
I know many many Italians who feel the pope and the church can suck it then shove it.
I think you're a sensible person, open to different possibilities and trying to make sense of how we got here.
We did come from somewhere, and modern science offers the best explanation available currently, but to wonder and let your brain explore others is healthy and may even be fun. It may be possible that you're still transitioning, as many people do, from not believing in the biblical god, but still believing in something, to eventually not attaching our existence to any creator.
Either way, it hurts no one.
Belief if the bible as the word of god, does hurt people.
I keep that door open a crack too. But I follow science more than anything. God or gods is just too anthropomorphic. Why not an elephant then? Or your choice. Some scientists think there might be a first cause for all that is. The first Big Bang maybe? But then that always begs the ‘what came before that argument’. Like endless turtles or ants (the myth tie in). Maybe mathematics?
Atheist. Being interested in a concept is not the same as believing in one. Defaut position is atheism until such a thing can be proven.