I know it sounds strange and all, but I'm kind of confused about certain things.
I say to those close to me that I am an atheist, that I don't believe in God and I don't follow the Bible.
But I have to say that I'm interested in the concept of a higher force who created us, even though I have no proof of that. Like, a force that created the universe and all that, but it doesn't require or demands our love and extreme obedience.
So can I still be considered an atheist or a deist? What are your thoughts on that?
Can I politely ask why you believe in something supernatural for which you admit there is no evidence for?
He didn't SAY he believes IN anything, merely he is interested in the concept.
sounds to me like you'd be interested in the simulation theory.
We are just sitting in some 7th graders closet after getting a B minus on their science project.
That would make you an Agnostic.
But @Cyklone explains it very well. If you invoke a creator (even if it's just a force) it does not solve your problem of how the universe came to be, because then you have to ask "who created the force", and that would carry on infinitely so.
In our lifetimes, we see the concept of life and death, so we assume the universe must have had a birth. In fact, the wider universe may have always been around forever. There was a big bang, but the current big bang could have been one of trillions of others, before, and alongside our current universe.
In Stephen Hawking's final book, Brief Answers to the Big Questions, he answers how a universe can just come into existence. When you get into the quantum scale, things can literally just pop in and out of existence. As the universe was, at one stage, at a quantum small size, it could literally have spontaneously cone into existence.
A highly recommend book if you get a chance to read.
With all due resoect I think you are stuck. You don't follow the bible. Well many religions don't follow the bible, as a matter of fact, only Christians "follow the bible" and Jews and Moslims follow parts of it.
You state your interest in a "concept of a higher force who created us" ... To me your wording indicates that you are a deist of sorts. Especially the term "created us". Creation presupposes a mind and a will and "us", I would represents humans.
I would not qualitfy you as an atheist.
I would call you an Atheist. Just being interested in God doesn't make you a deist to me. You have to have some sort of belief and conviction that a God exists. Hoping for it doesn't count either. They are just labels but it is best to look at your belief not what you would like to believe.
With all due respect ... I disagree with your statement "Just being interested in God doesn't make you a deist". It already implies the acceptance of the existence of "God" with I identify as the god who is the bloke in charge of the Abrahamic religons.
@PontifexMarximus He literally says that he doesn't believe in God. I am interested in Gods and religions but I certainly don't believe in any of them.
@afrogonalog not quite:
"I don't believe in God and I don't follow the Bible.
But I have to say that I'm interested in the concept of a higher force who created us."
"in God" and not a god or god's...
"a higher force who created us
@PontifexMarximus sorry, but when someone says they don’t believe in God then I certainly don’t think that they are a theist simply by the definition of the word. You are welcome to your view but at the end of the day he is what he is.
@afrogonalog The person states "a force that created the universe and all that" indicates to me some sort of theistic idea, especially the concept of "creation". Creation implies intention usually associated with some divine plan ... Whether a person specifically employs the term god or gods is not so relevant to me. I heard people claiming they were vegetarians because they consume salad and vegetables with their steak. ...
You're an atheist, by how you've described yourself. You seem to currently believe there is nothing, although you're open to the possibility. It seems fair to say, then, that this is the case until you have some reason to believe otherwise. Being curious or wondering about the possibility of a higher power doesn't quite make you a deist until you actually believe there is something god-like there.
No you're not an Atheist....you delight in pissing on alleged bible gawds and you conform to Thomas Paine Deism......a watchmaker sort of alleged gawd that does not tinker and interfere with alleged created systems anywhere....zero miracles .....you are most welcome here in agosticCYBERland.....telling the truth about bibles and xians et al is a great leap forward.... Deism was scientific until 150 years ago when the luminiferous ether was the last refuge of the alleged supernatural agencies.....no longer do any competent scientists pretend there are any alleged gawds observed in any realm to be measured...."intelligent design" advocates betray their science credentials to worm religion back into science....cosmology does NOT presume a "beginning" but does predict a massive explosion via observed background radiation from our points of observation in our galaxy of all galaxies expanding away from us.....to pretend a being larger than a 16 billion light year wide universe is a first cause is the definition of absurdity
I believe in a creator. I do not think IT cares about anyone thing. Think of your lawn if it were say 15 acres, (well the universe is kinda large...no?), so every day 25,000,000 blades die, but then 35,000,000 fill in the spaces. Do you care? no I doubt you would. Some of the lawns would be perfect and green, other crab grass, plus other weeds. But in a vast sea of grass, you just see green, think of Stalin, Hitler, Trump, Bush all as weeds in that cosmos. The creator does not see them, but rather the sum total, the big picture.
When creator gets bored, creator sends in a chunk of left over planet and wipes out the critters. Kinda like the meteor that killed all the dino's.
So pray never works, and, unless the creator is a kind one (using our values), there will be no reward at death, no reincarnation, we simply stop existing. God doesn't even tell you " I created you when I was bored and just love to watch you fuck and eat and invent and bash each others brains out, you do that very well BTW, but it is time for you to be recycled, so into a star you go" and that is it.
You are golden, you are stardust, you are billion year old carbon, and you ain't never get'n back to the garden!
But as any agnostic, any seeker, we simply go on, cus the alternative is nothing.
Deist is the one that believes in the existence of a god, this god can be personal or not.
A higher power that has a persona IS a god, you are just no calling it a god, but the concept is the same.
It don't need to be YHWH (the name of the abrahamic god) to be caled god.
You can be also religious but not deist, if you believe in spirits or a non personalized "universe" that has some supernatural law that governs the spiritual world. Budhism is a non teistic religion for example. Where in thesis any hman gan ascend to the higher levels.
Atheist is more than not following a personalized god, it includes the non teistic religions.
The online dictionary.com shows 2 definitions for deism: 1- belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation; and 2- belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
What you descibe sound a bit like the socond definition. How firm is your belief? I have read that agnostics are sometimes classified as atheist agnostics and theist agnostics. Would one of these apply to your belief any better than deism?
As far I am concerned, how you classify yourself is far less important than how you behave toward yourself and others. Take as much time as you want/need to work out what you believe and what you classify yourself as.
Why you worry about what strangers that do not know you think of you??? Really?
because tyhey make laws and punish us with them, even though we are not believers. They also tax us with those laws so we pay to be persecuted. The various christian sects learned well from the RC Churches Inquisition. Lest have a trial, pick a few torturee's do a lot publicly then give them the bill. What your relative won't pay, no problem, you next!
Richard Dawkins reminds us that in science nothing is 100% certain. Even the physical laws like gravity only apply some of the time -- as in a black hole, or inside an atom. So we shouldn't say we're atheists and leave the door of possibility open a little bit. I consider myself a "Strong Atheist" because the chances of these stupid religions being factual are practically nil.
By your own logic, no label is needed. Only people whom have something to prove will need this type of label.
If you believe there is some higher force/creator god but it doesn't involve itself in human affairs--and might not even know we exist--I would call you a deist. If you don't necessarily believe there is such a force, but think there just might be one--I would call you an agnostic.
Not believing in the Bible, or the god described in it, does not make you an atheist. Atheists don't believe in ANY gods, of any kind, not even the deists god.
If you see no reason to believe that any gods exist, but you recognize that it cannot be proven that one does not exist (it simply cannot be known)--I would call you an agnostic atheist (which is what I am). Although, I usually just identify as atheist.
There is belief and there is hope and there is rationale.
Belief is subjective and I doubt that anyone believes exactly the same thing. It is belief not fact.
Hope is for what might come next. This does not need fact.
Rationale says that something must have created the universe. But rationale only works if this is not complete illusion.
An interesting question: How should I label myself? An atheist has no belief in any god. Therefore, belief in a god that exists but doesn't interfere with human existence is not an atheist position. If you want to embrace deism then you are not an atheist.
You are an atheist when it comes to the Abrahamic God.
When it comes to the other half of your question, I would call you an assumptionist: you assume that the universe was created.
To answer your question: I would consider you to be an atheist and an assumptionist.
Yeah that's how I think.
Look up 'neo-deist' and you'll find that sentiment.
So I'm an agnostic neo-deist. Today, anyway.
I just have ideas here, there, and everywhere, depending on which way the wind is blowing, secure in the knowledge I don't have to believe IN or not believe IN anything.
For instance, I don't think there such a thing as "determinalism," because even 'god' couldn't know the future. What's my "evidence?"
I don't have any!
See?
It's easy!
Likewise, I don't think the physical world was ever "created" because it's always been here. The Big Bang was just the beginning of another of an infinite number of cycles.
No proof, just my feeling.
Agnostics don't need evidence or proof when it comes to the Great Mysteries because if there was any to begin with they wouldn't be mysteries.
Atheists and theists err by constantly bickering over this inconvenient fact.
Theists: no proof needed, faith is enough.
Atheists: faith insufficient, proof essential!
Yada yada yada.