RE: atheism not being a belief position, who agrees that:
The same way that the absence of numbers (zero) is still a number, the absence of belief (unbelief) is still a belief.
Who disagrees?
1
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6 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Non sequiturs and sophistry as you switch contexts mid argument. The absence of numbers is not zero. Zero is a number and a value. Unbelief is the absence of belief while disbelief might be a different belief, depending upon context. Your concepts are limited by your language and I'm sure you're smarter than that, so is this just about stirring the pot?
Cyklone
Level 7
June 7, 2020
1
@TheMiddleWay I'm not sure what you mean by personally as I haven't insulted you, in fact I espoused the belief that you are smarter than your confused post suggests, so it's pretty clear I was criticising your post, not you, but if you wish to interpret it that way, be my guest. Some people will take any disagreement as a personal attack. Your post is confused because zero is a number itself between -1 and 1 which you confuse with the the colloquial use of zero to mean nothing. This is clearly seen in your dictionary definition which defines two different meanings for it. This I labelled sophistry and rather than explain that I'll recommend a dictionary.
Your argument about belief confuses the two different concepts of unbelief and disbelief.
@TheMiddleWay thanks for the apology. I was not trying to be condescending. I've read previous posts of yours and although I don't agree with much of it I hadn't taken you for a fool. I thought your post confusing because you shift contexts re: belief and number. I know nothing of the maths of category theory but you shift from zero or 0 being in the category numbers to zero as representing nothing in a different sense. Not my area of expertise but I argue that shifting the category is not legitimate. A bit like saying I wouldn't put my money in a bank in case a dingo dug it up.
It seems like the absence of (religious) belief could be indicative of other held beliefs. There are also plenty of atheists who seem as fervent in their disbelief as any fundamentalist theist. But no, atheism need not be either a belief nor a cause held to zealously.
MarkWD
Level 7
June 7, 2020
0
NOT believing in something is not a belief. Why is this even a question? I also don't believe in dragons, unicorns, leprechauns, pixies, Bigfoot, the Yeti, the Loch Ness Monster, mermaids, goblins, and other nonsense. The lack of belief in these things is not a belief nor does anyone ever question whether it is or not. But when the subject turns to gods, then it suddenly becomes a topic of debate.
Normally, if there is an utter lack of evidence (much less proof) that something exists then MOST reasonable sensible people consider it normal to NOT believe in that thing. If I say I don't believe in Smurfs no one is going to say that my lack of belief is a belief. Why give gods more credibility or some benefit of a doubt?
Charles1971
Level 7
June 6, 2020
2
I agree with your assertion that atheism is a belief, but think your analogy to zero might be improved.
EdEarl
Level 8
June 6, 2020
0
@TheMiddleWay Wish I could help. Alas, I'm stumped.
If I have an absence of belief in an assertion it means that I have not been persuaded about that assertion. My belief that I have not been persuaded is a valid belief, but it is not a belief about the assertion. It is a belief about myself.
I could be mistaken about my belief. It is possible that in the depths of my subconscious mind wheels have been turning and that I actually believe but don’t know that I believe.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
June 6, 2020
0
Atheism is a religion (a belief) like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby. 
FearlessFly
Level 9
June 6, 2020
0
@TheMiddleWay I attend a local Meetup group "Does God Exist", run by an otherwise likeable, but hard-core Catholic apologist. Typically as many non-believers as believers attend, typically good philosophic 'discussions'.
Just like getting a definitive definition of 'god'(s), a definitive definition of "belief" is troublesome, rarely is there consensus/agreement.
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