What would you do?
I wrote about my friend, Joanne Witt, who caught her 14 year old daughter, Tylar, having sex with her 18 year old boyfriend. Many know the outcome, no need to belabour that point, Joanne is dead and her daughter and boyfriend are in jail.
My wife and I discussed this, and came up with the same conclusion, and I can hardly say discussion because we were in agreement before the discussion even started.
Joanne discovered Tylar was sexually active, and sex is like an addictive drug, once Tylar had sex, she liked it and she doesn't want to/isn't going to stop. I think that's as nature intended, or how it works anyway.
So we believe the right thing to do was to get Tylar on the pill or some form of birth control, and teach her about safe sex and how to protect herself.
A bit of background, I was 8 years older than my wife, we met when she was 24 and I was 32. At 15 she had decided to become sexually active, went to her family doctor, who had no problem prescribing birth control and discussing sex with her. I give her credit, she decided to start having sex, and was fully prepared for the first time.
I believe Joanne totally over reacted and it cost her her life, and destroyed the life of Tylar and Steven Colver.
Do you agree or disagee?
Reword that first answer to Educate your 14 year old about sex . I was a youth worker that did sex education classes to 13-18 year olds . We have out condoms , lube , female condoms etc . Educated them on the sexually transmitted infections . We never told them not to do it as it was their choice we did inform them of the law but always stressed on the safe sex part . Studies then showed that the work done like this reduced teenage pregnancy
Unfortunately here in the states, common sense and accurate information about sex is considered "dangerous secular propoganda" and fought against by our fundamentalists who have a LOT more power than they should.
@Blindbird I know I've seen the statistics on teen pregnancy and sti's
@Blindbird socialists have issues with anti-authoritarians, I agree.
Consider the horrible premise of the people not paying their fair share of bribes & extortions, called taxation~~!!~
The problem with this is that sex is seen as a shamefull act. The so called Sex ed classess in school are POS. They preach abstenance more then they actually teach you what it is and what body parts are. Did you know many adult women and some men, think women piss out of ther vagina. Yeah let that sink in.
Highest teen pregnancy rates are in areas that preach abstaining from sex as the only means of contraception.
@Humanity4all That is true. I am ashamed i was so ignorant on how it worked when i was younger. I had my first kid at 16, and my sex education was DON'T DO IT!!! Well the guy i was with was no better then i was. He told me you could not get pregnant on your Period... Welp 15 yearold me believed it and 9 months later i got my daughter.
I was 17 when I conceived my fist child. My mother never took the time to talk about anything, much less sex. I decided very early on that my kids would know about safe sex, and that they can come to me if they have questions.
Oldest son somehow missed the message and had his first child at 20. Youngest son is in his 30s and does not want any children of his own.
Oldest daughter is Asexual, wants nothing to do with sex. Middle daughter has her future mapped out, and it doesn't involve children, youngest daughter thinks boys are stupid and gross.
I think kids need open honest communication from a very young age.
Yes. Good Information, reasoning skills and support are the best weapons we can arm our kids with.
I am doing the same thing with my kids. No one really took the time to explain it to me, and how it works. I am now explaining it all to my girls. My 7 year old knows the ins and outs of sex and what her body is and will be.
By 14, i would have already had many talks about sex, but now we head to Planned Parenthood for birth control.
I have to say that I would never allow my 14 year old to date an 18 year old that's too large of a maturity and experience gap.
Not to mention that he could end up with a criminal record. We had a neighbor who was a registered sex offender for having sex with a minor. No matter that he was now married to her...the record stood!
@deebeach1965 That's an absolute travesty! It pisses me off.
@BlueWave me too! Follows him everywhere. Her parents didn’t like him thus the arrest.
They should be educated on sexual safety before puberty strikes... Because nobody can be sure when the hormonal storm may kick in and if the kid is unprepared, the consequences may be unthinkable and very traumatic.
And I absolutely believe in a person's right to decide when, how and with whom to engage in sexual activity and when someday my kids reach that point, I will be fine with that as long as itnis their will. My duty is to teach them to be safe and responsible - on that matter and in general.
My dad was very open with me about sex at 14. My dad suggested birth control to make sure that there would be no accidents. I had a long term boyfriend, my dad had given me the tools that were needed. He had enrolled me in a sex education class at the hospital.
Conversations should start very early - through books, parenting, questions, etc. AND, teaching about condoms, safe sex, pregnancy, pregnancy control, etc. as early as conversations come up.
To teenagers three or four years between them is nothing. It doesn't feel like a big gap. And, nobody is out there teaching teens the legal ramifications of this.
Boys (very young men) are getting the scarlett letter of ("P" ) for life for not knowing the legal code in their states.
Their brains are not even fully developed for another SEVEN years! But nobody is telling them the legal code beforehand! They are not thinking about laws -- their hormones are raging wild.
People are not saying "THIS is the reason you must fight with all your might being attracted to anybody more than a year or so younger than you. Because you will be prosecuted and labeled a predator for the rest of your life!" No, what people say is simply "You can't! That's wrong! He or she is too young for you!" That is not enough -- IMO.
I advocate that everybody stop teaching that a perfectly normal and natural biological behavior is wrong, bad, dirty, disgusting and shameful.
No, that does NOT mean hand your 10 year-old condoms and an IUD. Discuss all of it -- all the good, the bad and the ugly. Provide guidance. Have rules and boundaries for your own homes.
I just wish everybody would please stop making humans feel like shit for doing what humans do.
I put my girls on bcp after their periods started, partly because they had painful periods. We also discussed how babies are made. They were also restricted to dating boys in their grade so the maturity issue did not cause problems. My oldest skirted the dating restriction by dating guys she worked with that were older. But she was smarter than they were and was able to see through their BS. She did get her heart broken. The second got in trouble in other ways. The youngest seemed to pick nice guys,and in her grade. She kinda glossed over the babies talk, and her dad caught her and her guy friend in a slightly alarming situation. He asked me to have a talk with her. I asked her what she would call stupid teenagers who got carried away. She answered she'd just call them stupid teenagers. I told her most would likely call them parents. It was soooo cool to watch the light dawn in her eyes, really like seeing the snyapses connecting. She gave me my first grandchild at 25, the oldest will give me my second grandchild next month, and she's 33.
So of course.its gona all come down to the kids but when it comes.right down to it there's only gona be so much you can do to stop teens from doing what they do..
The most you can do is give them the facts teach em how to avoid pitfalls and hope they have the smarts to not fuck up.
My 16 year old daughter knows the whole story and thankfully has zero interest in boys. I suspect this comes from watching her mother and I fight like cats and dogs and subsequently get divorced and she's decided "I don't want any part of that'. She has watched her friends go through boyfriend related drama and it had much the same effect. I find the somewhat popular attitude that knowledge and/or use of birth control will lead to the act to largely be nonsense. Ignorance is far more destructive than knowledge. I think one of the biggest things sex education misses is teaching how sex fits into a relationship. They teach the biological aspects of reproduction but they don't teach about love and connection and how sex fits into that. One thing I told my daughter to think about was if you find yourself thinking about having sex, ask yourself WHY you are having sex...is it pressure, is it curiousity, is it emotion...what is the real motivation here? My hopes was that she would have enough doubts over that question to reconsider doing something impulsive or because of pressure.
Now that I have read some background information on your friend's case, it seems to me the young girl had some serious entitlement issues. I also believe her mother over reacted and the two were a deadly combination. Now a woman is dead and two young people are looking at years if not their entire life behind bars. The sad part is that it all could have been avoided.
I was at school with two girls who had to take leave because of pregnancy they would have been coming up to thirteen - I had my daughter when I was nineteen - I seriously am in no position to have an opinion here - It could easily have been me my mother didnt even give me the talk was bi polar mainly manic and hopeless about periods and everything else - I had a nice aunt who helped me with periods, but no one talked about sex, safe sex, or anything starting with S and ending in x
I got ZERO education about sex at home, but was told by my mother if she caught me "playing with myself" she would burn my penis with matches. How's that for a mental picture!
@Lincster45 made me laugh did she ever chase you with a box of matches? she just gave new meaning to the idea of a 'willie warmer '
sounds like you would have a valuable opinion
@Lincster45 Your mother sounds like a dangerous person.
@HippieChick58. Yes. That makes me sad.
@HippieChick58 She was scary at times. She passed away in 2000, she had heart issues, and when she heard George W. Bush was elected it killed her, well that was a good family joke. Seriously she would probably be considered an abuser today, way too many enemas, she felt they cured anything from a hangnail to the plague, should be given frequently during the polio season, I do admit that was a real fear before the vaccine. But almost anything from a sniffle or a sneeze, or just because "I think you need one."
@Lincster45 OMG, I'm so sorry you had to go through that insanity and abuse.
@BlueWave @Lincster45 @BlueWave Me too Lincster and sorry for my innapropriate comment it just came into my head - yes mad abusive mothers &/or fathers are no laughing matters at all.
I had 3 step daughters to raise none of which became a teenage mother. Why, because their mother and I talked openly with them about sex, told them not to be in a hurry to grow up and to respect themselves, let them know their options should they decide to engage in it to protect their health and their futures and offerred them support to make their own decisions.
Bravo!!
I am also happy to say that my 28 year-old daughter has never been pregnant. Most of her high school classmates had kids young.
I am equally happy to say that she does not feel any shame about her sexuality.
I think the age difference when in the teens is an issue because maturity differences are quite different. Experiences are quite different. I mean they are anyway but part of the reason age laws are placed are because most teenagers tend to think they know everything they need to know simply because they haven't seen or been through a lot at that point. To top that off, their brains are just not wired for personal health and safty and they seem to have some silly invincability glitch.
I made regular talks a priority with my son early on. When he was curious about the body and how it worked we picked up a couple kid books on the body that included sexuality. I believe he was around 6 at the time. I let him keep the books and when he brought up questions (not often but did happen) then we talked things through. Respect was always part of those conversations and you cannot make people do things they don't want to do without throwing respect out the window. No means no and protecting the person you choose to spend that sort of time with is dire. Getting to know someone is very imporstant before getting that involved so waiting is a good idea over all. Not forever or just for marriage but for learning about eachother and seeing how comfortable they can both be.
And for goodness sake if he does get the go ahead, use nine thousand kinds of birth control because NONE of us are ready for him to be a daddy. Nore do we wish any deseases on him. I don't think girls should be treated any different.
I tend to somehow disagree with the first part . Teenagers are fully capable of grasping the concepts of (self) safety. If they act unsafe it is most predominantly because their parents have failed to teach them these earlier.
I am somehow terrified as our modern day society threats the young people as inept and almost mentally challenged. When I was a kid, we were supposed to know how to be safe by the age of 6.
About the books and conversations - I fully agree.
I was provided proper books by the age of 6 and considered myself fully informed on the matter by the age of 8 (the books were good, my favorite one had no illustrations at all but was a very good read on psycho-emotional sides of sexual activities - it was intended for adults). Never really had to ask anything, the books were providing all the information needed.
I do agree that teenagers are more likely to engage in potentially harmful behavior, yet actually getting a few scratches is part of the process to become a responsible adult.
Society today is very liberal. If an attractive young girl wants sex, she is going to find it, as it is being offered to her all the time. I would realistically teach her about sex, protection, diseases, and pregnancy.
The problem I see with this is that nature's sexual overdrive distracts young minds from education. I've seen this easier to talk about that with people in their late teens and early 20s, as they can comprehend the consequences.
My sister was born in 1939 and a couple of months ago I had her count the months between our parents marriage and her birth, she was stunned that it was only 6 months and I would have thought an almost 80 year old ex teacher could have figured that out earlier. I had my daughter on birth control at 16 because I did not want her making he same mistake I made, she will be 40 her next birthday and said she will probably do the same for her 14 year old daughter. Nature will make a teen do things and it is best to prevent a bad outcome.
Ha,ha! I did the math when I wanted to get married before I was out of high school and my parents were balking. My girlfriend thought she was pregnant, and we were using that as an excuse. Anyway, I started calculating and realized that I was born before 9 months of their marriage (May to January). Dad assured me that they had planned to get married before they found out., LOL! Did get married, lasted 8 years.
Never heard original story but sounds tragic. Having the talk before puberty and birth control are solutions.
I was nine when my mom started talking to me about sex, because a friend of mine who had older siblings had told me much misinformation about it. I still have the book that she gave me, and remember the countless talks we had on the subject. My husband and I started talking to our sons about sex when they were 11 or so. We have been open and honest with them about it since then, and they both feel comfortable talking with us about it. We have told them numerous times that it is important to not only protect themselves, but also their partner from pregnancy and STD's. We have a drawer in our house that has condoms in it, and they can take whenever they please with no judgment. I check it regularly to see if it needs to be replaced.
I was open with my kids about sex from the start. Education and understanding works better than rules and restrictions.
I think the mom could have handled it differently, but I feel she was well within her rights as a parent. An 18 year old has no business having sex with a 14 year old. There is a huge difference in emotional development between those ages.
From what I read about the 14 year old, it sounds like she might have had some mental illness as well, because of her comments about angels and demons.
A 14 year old is also very easy to manipulate and that's why we have laws about this kind of thing. 16/18 would be a lot easier to tolerate in my mind.
The day that Joanne found Tylar and Steven in the act she should have called 911 right then, not waited while things festered, I'd have watched him being driven away in the cruiser. But knowing Tylar I would have opted for the birth control and safe sex, because, as they say, the cat was out of the bag, and she wasn't going back in. And Joanne had to be pretty stupid the let Colver move in in the first place, last time I saw Tylar, about 18 months before this happened, I would have wagered she was already sexually active. She wasn't a little girl anymore, she was a very worldly 13 year old. I have a friend with a daughter the same age, the difference was remarkable, my other friends daughter was still a little girl.
But remember that the difference between 14 and 18 is a freshman and a senior in high school. That happens a lot...and maybe she was 14 and he was 17 when they began their relationship and he had a birthday. Lots of variables...Just playing devil's advocate here...?
Maybe we need more of the netherlands approach. Remove some of the mystery out of sex.
Never happen, especially in the bible belt or ignorant south.
@Lincster45 I didn't say it would happen. I think it would be useful
@lbusche 100% agreement, but I stand on the places it will never happen, which just happen to be the places with the highest teen pregnancy rates.
I explained the facts of life to my now adult daughter. She was also told not to do anything stupid (such as running away or suicide) if she found herself pregnant.
I do take issue with one of your assertions though. Specifically, "I believe Joanne totally over reacted and it cost her her life, and destroyed the life of Tylar and Steven Colver." She possibly over-reacted, and it obviously must have cost her life. However, that over-reaction didn't "destroy" their lives. Those two young people made a decision. THAT is what destroyed their life.
My belief is that you teach kids about the consequences of sex - physical and emotional, including the rates of teenage pregnancy and sti infection. And you also give them the information they need to protect themselves when they do decide to have sex, including the fact that no form of protection is foolproof and that the responsible choice is to wait until you are ready to handle all of the potential consequences.
Waiting until kids ask is a huge mistake. When the laundry hits the floor, they aren't going to stop and call their parents for advice and opinion. If that advice and opinion is already in their thought process, they don't have to...they simply have to fight the urge to have sex in an unsafe manner. Parents have to be proactive and educate beforehand. Its been boy meets girl for tens of thousands of years, and that isn't going to change because of some skewed paranoid value system. Our reptillian brains' instinct to procreate and enjoy sexual relations blasts through any societal values or religious nonsense dogma and beliefs. Thank Newt Gingrich/Reagan/Falwell and the rest of the 'Moral Majority' (which was neither) for derailing the common sense 60's and beyond sexual participants who believed in birth control...and not having children before they were ready. The laughable 'Abstainance' method MUST be avoided unless you're ok with babies having babies. Just ask Bristol Palin.
I didn't vote for any of the above. When my kids asked questions I answered them. They started asking about body parts when they were 3 years old or so, they started asking about where babies come from when they were about 5 or 6. They asked why a man talked like a girl when they were a little older, maybe 7or so. I answered every question honestly. Also, they saw their Dad and I naked from time to time, so they knew there were differences and that they change as they grow. They knew all about everything when they were in puberty. When my daughter started dating, she was about 15 to 16 years old. She told me she wanted to have sex. She asked me to get her some birth control. I told her no. I told her that I did not care if she had sex, as long as she didn't get pregnant, diseased, or thing this was the love her life and she was going to be with him forever. I told her that she will love her boyfriend fiercely, but, might find out, over time that he is not the one for her. She should treasure their time together, respect each other and part as friends when it ran it's course. I also told her that if she was old enough to have sex, she was old enough to take care of her own birth control and condoms, and that if her boyfriend was old enough for sex, he would go with her to the doctor, and they would get tested for disease, and get birth control and condoms. I reminded her that when I started having sex with her dad, that we took care of our own birth control, and my mom didn't have to do it for us. If they could not do that, don't have sex untill they could. She never caught a disease or got pregnant. She has now been married for 24 years, to a man she met in her 20's.