I hope so. I'm not optimistic about it but I hope.

@barjoe

Likewise.

The democrats are trying to blow it again but considering the poor state that the country is in currently, maybe people will decide they have had enough winning.

@RoboGraham How are they trying to blow it? Trump is abusing the power of the office every day. He's gotten away with it and he could steal this in several key states and "win" an electoral victory. Hillary got 5 million more votes than Trump and had a majority of the popular vote. That's how it works here.

@barjoe

They are trying to blow it by nominating an unappealing candidate who has to be hid away from cameras so he doesn't blow it with his jumbled words.

Clinton got 3 million more votes. Lets not go inflating numbers.

And if he were to win an electoral victory again, that's not stealing it, that's how it works here.

@RoboGraham Unappealing to who? Who would you nominate? Who would be a stronger candidate than Joe Biden? Don't say anybody either. You tell me who's your appealing candidate Bernie would get crushed and he's just as old.

@jorj I think she'd get crushed. It doesn't matter what they say if Trump wins, they'll have to suck it up. It won't matter. It doesn't matter. If Biden wins. THEN you'll have the Trumpers screaming foul. I wouldn't want that to happen but I hope to be proven wrong or right in that scenario.

@jorj

Very true. If Joe wins, democracy has triumphed.

If Trump wins, well it's because of the Russians, the racists, the deplorables, the Bernie Bros, probably the Chinese somehow, the greens, and of course, you and I because we are just so influencal.

@RoboGraham I said he's just as old. Bernie would get redbaited by Trump. He's going to try that with Biden too but with Bernie it would work. I would vote for Bernie but he would lose. Bad. I'm not prejudiced at all but Bernie Sanders is a Jew. That would be a problem as well. It's a fact.

@barjoe

They will red bait whoever they go up against. Right now, with this crazy pandemic and economic downturn, people would be much more open to social democratic policies. In fact it's exactly what we need and I bet if there were a major candidate advocating for it right now, that person would be immensely popular but that's not happening because the donors won't allow it.

I think that the people who have a problem with Jews, will be voting Trump regardless.

@RoboGraham Trumpers aren't the only people who are Jew Haters. Joe Biden's a Catholic but that not as much an issue. There's lots of anti-Semitism on the left as well. I hear it all the time.

@barjoe

I haven't come across that but I'll take your word for it. I heard the same from st sinner but I don't trust him as far as I can throw him.

It is very odd that people still have that hatred.

@RoboGraham I've encountered it on the left and the right. It's pretty universal. Everybody hates Jews.

@barjoe

I've seen people on the left get angry about what Israel is doing and people mistake that for anti-Semitism, but never have I come across an actual leftie antisemite.

Of course there are people like that on the right, they hate everybody.

@RoboGraham That's not antisemitism. If you don't think it exists. You're wrong. Not talking Israel, talking hating Jews.

@jorj

They don't know who they're fucking with

@jorj

He's officially a democrat. That's all they need. republicans are so heavily propagandized that they see that D in front of the name and it is automatically associated with communism.

@jorj #1 Trump would be all over Bernie as a Communist. #2 Not talking about Israel!. Bernie isn't Pro-Israel. Bernie is a Jew. Democrats and Republicans, left and right, black and white. A lot of People hate Jews. It's a disadvantage to say the least.

@jorj

I know exactly what you mean.

Do you think you'll bother to vote at all?

@jorj

Right, if we buy into that logic, we will never have the right circumstances to vote for what's right rather than the lesser evil. I do think Trump is more dangerous than others because he is having federal agents detain protestors in violation of their constitutional rights, but still, they are all dangerous and I won't be voting for harm reduction anymore.

Glad to hear it. I think voting is very important and is the bare minimum of civic duty. And I whole heartedly agree. If you don't exercise your right to vote, you have no right to complain about the results. I've never missed an opportunity to vote, although admittedly, I had been doing it wrong up until now. I won't be voting for any bribe takers either.

@jorj

Sure, for those who are being detained for suspicion of damaging federal property, it's fine.

But the agents are taking people in areas far from any federal buildings. There aren't very many federal buildings in Portland so their purview is small, yet they are inserting themselves beyond the areas where they belong.

It is also very worrying that they have no identification because, for the people being snatched, there's no way to know if they are legit. So some people are being intimidated into not exercising their right to protest for fear that they may surrender to thugs masquerading as federal agents. And that is exactly why they are doing this. It's all about intimidation. Trump is desperate to get things under control, but if you look at the how the demonstrations are growing, it's having the opposite effect.

Here's a video that I think breaks it down pretty well- [agnostic.com]