I totally agree and would be glad to join if he ended up winning.

@TomMcGiverin

I'll make the group when I have some time

@RoboGraham I could have used an Obama pinata group back when he was prez. I got so sick of his supporters accusing me of being racist or unfairly blaming him for how the big, bad Repubs wouldn't allow him to do anything, even when he was elected with a supermajority until he disappointed enough voters early on that he lost that, justifiably, in 2010. It seemed to me and many others that he was relieved that he could now blame everything on the Repubs instead of his own habit of negotiating with himself and doing the preemptive cave on every issue he agreed with the Repubs on. I also got tired of his supporters always playing the race card and/or blaming the Repubs when it was clear that he only really cared about Wall Street and corporate America when it came to anything involving money and power, vs. the usual distractions of identity politics, where he was, of course, all in for playing to his base.

@TomMcGiverin

Was this site here when he was president?

Yeah, he did a great job of obeying the will of wall street while feigning to be blocked by the opposition. I didn't realize it at the time because he had me convinced but I'm seeing it now.

Also- I made the group- [agnostic.com]

@RoboGraham I don't think the site was around yet back then. Thanks for creating the group, Robo. You the man..

@TomMcGiverin

Thanks Tom. And thanks for joining the group.

Now i just need to promote it and get some others to join up.

I don't know, seems as appropriate as a Trump Pinata group.. Also is just as appropriate as all the vote-shaming I have regularly experienced here from Biden supporters.

@TomMcGiverin The vote-shaming goes both ways, it even exists in your original comment. I will vote for Biden because I believe he is our best chance to preserve our democracy. But I'm looking for a positive experience from this website so I would prefer to avoid any controversy.

@LovinLarge I don't try to tell people not to vote for Biden. They can do whatever they want to, as will I. All I ask is that they don't tell me who to vote for or tell me that Biden is really that better than Trump. In other words, just be honest about their reasoning, like the Settle For Biden campaign is.

@TomMcGiverin Are you saying that Biden is not more progressive than Trump?

@LovinLarge He may be somewhat more progressive or to the left of Trump on abortion and climate change, but on the usual stuff that the Dems and Repubs make a big deal out of showing differences on, like identity politics and culture war stuff, like crime, The War On Drugs, and foreign policy like wars in the Middle East, he and Trump are pretty much the same. Same thing with tax policy and civil liberties. Biden voted for the Patriot Act, remember? Biden is not as openly hostile to minorities and women as Trump, but he supported Clarence Thomas over Anita Hill in the SC confirmation hearing, as well as the crime bill in the 1990s and Obama's NDAA, which paved the way for Trump's use of fed troops domestically. His immigration policies don't differ that much from Trump as far as deportation. Black people give him way more credit and support than he deserves with his record. He refuses to support M 4All or legalizing weed. Biden also voted for the Iraq War and supported Obama's policies of staying in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of getting out. Finally, there's his longtime loyalty to corporate America and his private comment to rich donors that "nothing will fundamentally change", meaning economic and tax policy. Biden also supported NAFTA and the TPP, as well as other neoliberal trade policies that Trump supports, leading to outsourcing of American jobs.

As Nina Turner, Bernie's campaign co-chair and likely VP pick if he had been nominated, said about Biden, "Biden is just half a bowl of shit, while Trump is a whole bowl". I love her bluntness. Either way, you are voting for shit and that's what you will get for policy after the election. The main difference you might see if Biden got elected is that he would not be hostile to science or experts, and therefore, we might get better policy and leadership on dealing with Covid. Outside of that, I wouldn't expect much difference in policy if I were you.

@TomMcGiverin One of the two will be president and we agree that Biden would be better. Very easy decision.

@LovinLarge Suit yourself...

@TomMcGiverin I'm not suiting myself, I'm doing what the facts show is the best chance of preserving our democracy.

@LovinLarge I'm afraid that ship sailed a long time ago. You should read Chris Hedges. Even Jimmy Carter said years ago we no longer have a functional democracy.. In my opinion, we already had fascism before Trump. It's called rule by corporations merged with the security state.

@TomMcGiverin The easy thing to do is to throw up your hands and say "all is lost". The hard thing to do is to fight even though you know you're not going to get everything or perhaps even most things you want. Change is almost always incremental. You can support it or oppose it.