The will of the people is carried out by the government

@RoboGraham By that definition, the US clearly has plutocracy rather than democracy. The ruling class is not afraid of the masses at all these days and even most of the pols in DC don't bother to pretend that they care about the commoners or what the commoners think or want. They insult our intelligence regularly. I have no doubt that privately most pols in DC think that we are idiots that haven't caught on to their con or even if we have, they callously dismiss us as having nowhere else to go outside the two major parties. And as long as those that do vote stay confined to the two major parties, those pols are right and they will continue to behave accordingly.

@TomMcGiverin

100%

I'm sure they do laugh at us when not on camera. Like that idiot Eliot Engle who just lost his primary because he was caught on camera admitting that he was only in his state because there was a primary.

They know most of us won't figure it out unless it's that blatantly obvious.

This situation with the pandemic and economic recession brings me hope though. People are waking up. Capitalism is failing. The leaders are all very unpopular. Riots in the streets. Change is in the air. It's very scary and unpredictable but there is also much potential for improvement from this mess.

I do envy you Europeans as most of your governments have not been completely captured by the rich and corporations like the US, at least not yet. And also envy your parlimentary systems in which someone like me can actually be represented in government by a party that shares my values and policy positions. In America, almost half of us are not represented that way by either major party, so we stop voting in fed elections.

@TomMcGiverin It's not that hard to keep corporations out of Politics. BAN Corporate funding of Politicians. BAN Superpacks. Just take the money out of Politics

@dermot235 I agree with the methods you mention, but in the US it's impossible because of the past court decisions, the collusion of the two major parties to maintain the status quo on campaign funding, the wealth and power of the rich and corporations to control the mass media, etc. These things make it impossible to remove big money out of politics here because the whole system here supports the status quo: The courts, the media, both major parties. Unlike Europe, the mass media does not have to provide free air time for qualified candidates, the campaign seasons are not time limited either, like in Europe. The media corporations would never allow the government to restore the Fairness Doctrine, which was abolished in the 1980s and required that TV stations give free air time for opposing viewpoints to respond to editorial comments or political ads.

The only way American politics could get rid of the big money in it would be to have third parties get control of the federal government first, but instead most Americans would rather just tune out and drop out of the system first. We would have to have tens of millions rioting in the streets before the rich and corporations would give up their power and control of the fed govt. I don't see many Americans willing to get out there and fight for it like we would need for it to happen.

@Fred_Snerd mmmmmh. That could take 1000's of years. I think the American Empire will be gone well before that.

@TomMcGiverin
"but in the US it's impossible."
So you think it's to hard to make changes in the US
.
All we had to do in Europe was overcome Fascism, Hitler, Mussolini, All of eastern Europe being run by Communism. I guess it's been so easy in Europe.?????

@dermot235 I think you were able to do it in Europe because your citizens are better educated, more engaged with politics and, most importantly, much more conscious of economic class. It seems like most Europeans, unlike Americans, see themselves as part of a large citizenry that is united for the common good, instead of the American worship of individualism that pervades America's media, entertainment and educational system. Most Americans identify with and worship the rich, wanting and planning/hoping to also be rich someday, while most Euros seem to be more realistic and identify with the middle class or lower classes and instead desire peace and security and fairness over individual ambition and advancement.

US hasn't had Catholic (any) church (or a Monarchy) powerful enough to control things for long periods of time.

@dermot235 It's too hard in America because most people are brainwashed by the two major parties and the mass media. They don't know how to think critically and so they are easily manipulated by those groups. Collectively, we Americans, even those without wealth, have the power under the law to change things, but too many of us have either given up, are brainwashed and don't get what is wrong and needs to be done, or are unwilling to get out in the streets to fight for it, violently or non-violently. The BLM protests, which used to get constant TV coverage from national networks, now get completely ignored for the last few weeks, for example...

@Fred_Snerd I guess all is lost then

@TomMcGiverin That may be true. But people in the 1930's did not care like this. So change is possible anywhere. Remember that Hiller got 41% of the Vote in Germany before he came to power. Europeans have not always been fans of Democracy. On the other hand America had a democracy over 200 years ago that Europeans could only dream about. Change does happen

@FearlessFly "US hasn't had Catholic (any) church (or a Monarchy) powerful enough to control things for long periods of time. "

That should give you a big advantage over Europe. We have had to fight monarchs and the church to remove power from them. And it took up until 20 years ago in Ireland to challenge the power of the Church that it has had since the 1870's

@dermot235 I have been alive since 1958 and from my observation, politics in America has only continued to get worse since the early 1970s, which is when the federal government began to become much less responsive to the common people, the outsourcing of jobs began to get much worse, union membership began to fall drastically, and corporate campaign donations began to dwarf union campaign donations, and the US began making trade deals that sold out workers. Automation of jobs also began to really accelerate in that time. Corporate campaign donations are now 16 times greater than that of unions. All of these trends began to intersect in the US beginning in the early 1970s and that's why the average wages of American workers, adjusted for inflation, have not risen since 1973. We stopped making progress because the pols sold us out after that and the economy and tax policy since then have been all for the benefit of the top 1%, which is who gives most of the campaign money, either directly or thru corporations. Life expectancy in the US, for those in the lower classes, has actually gone down in the last decade or so, back to where it was before the passage of Medicare and Medicaid in the mid 1960s.

So, for the lower classes in America below the top 10% of the wealthiest, it's like living in a third world country. You're right, dermot, most Americans will probably not wake up and be willing to fight the ruling class until there is another Depression like the 1930s. Racial injustice like what we saw this summer with the BLM protests will not be enough to get most white Americans motivated to revolt against the system, violently or peacefully. I think it would take tens of millions out in the street and I am not confident that police and military would not just mow us down no matter how peaceful we were, whether the president was a Dem or a Repub. It would be Tianneman Square in America, with no media coverage as well. Since America's initial revolution, the history shows that Americans will only revolt when they feel they have nothing left to lose. Right now we still have way too many people who still have jobs, food, housing, healthcare and a feeling of security.

@dermot235 US chose not to follow those "crooked paths". US still has (plenty of) other 'paths' to correct.

@dermot235

Let Ireland be an inspiration to us.

I think you should move here and give us lessons.

And I think you're right, the American empire is not long for this world. It will soon be as dead as that of the Brits.

@TomMcGiverin I agree with what you are saying . Except for the bit about outsourcing of jobs. What do you mean by this

@FearlessFly Are you saying that they are harder to correct than the ones Europe had to navigate??

@dermot235 Not harder, different. US has some better issues, some worse. I wouldn't want to "rate" the US or Europe issues.

@RoboGraham Let Europe be an inspiration to us. Let the EU be an inspiration to us. Without the EU Ireland would not be the success it is. 99% of people in Ireland accept this. And let Germany and Sweden and Denmark be an inspiration to us all. And let the co-operation of 27 European nations in the EU inspire us. 27 different countries can get along and there has been peace in Europe because of this

@dermot235

The EU is certainly an inspiration to me. Particularly those members, including the ones you mentioned, that embrace progressive policies and actually protect their people from the ravages of capitalism.

@RoboGraham I consider myself Irish but I also am proud to call myself a European. Not in a nationalistic sense but as someone who is proud to be part of the European project of the EU

@dermot235

It's a beautiful thing. Especially considering the centuries of constant war between the Europeans. Now they are living in peace and working together for the first time. It's crazy to me that the UK would want to leave.

@RoboGraham They are regretting it already. Polls show support for the European Union are going Up in the UK. But it's too late. Britain always was a complainer in the EU and Europe has had enough of them. Europe is now taking the approach, let them leave and we can all get on with advancing the European Project now. Britian has burnt it's bridges and is about to find out how bad a decision it has made . Not just in the long term but in the next 2 or 3 years.

@dermot235

I think it would be hilarious if it gets so bad for them after a few years of being on their own that they come to us and ask to become a state. That would be ironic.

And I hope the Scots abandon them and join back with the EU.

@RoboGraham If there was a vote in Scotland now, they would leave. No doubt. The Scottish leader of the Scottish Parliament has already asked for another Referendum on independence

@dermot235 I mean that the multinational corporations, thru trade treaties that their bought politicians negotiate with other countries, as well as decisions made directly by the corporations to move their jobs, factories, and services from the US to low or lower wage countries, end up outsourcing the jobs away from the US. The result is that US workers end up with fewer jobs to compete for, the jobs that are left are less often unionized, and the pay and benefits, as well as the job security of those remaining jobs in America, are worse. It's the globalization version of musical chairs, a desperate scramble among the workers to compete for worse and worse jobs in a shrinking pool. The latest result is the gig economy. No job security or benefits, low pay, but oh so much "freedom" for the worker in having a flexible schedule and independent contracting....

@TomMcGiverin That is Voodoo economics. Germany has a free trade agreement with China and also has a Trade SURPLUS with China and German wages are higher then in the US. It's all about how Germany competes with China. Germany makes high quality Hi-Tech Goods that China cannot make as well as they can. The US needs to move up the Value chain instead of keeping low skilled job in the US protected. This will make american workers poorer, not better off.

@dermot235 I thought all of America's so-called low skill factory jobs went to China....

@TomMcGiverin So are you looking for Low stilled Jobs back???? Should you not be looking to create good jobs that pay well and use innovation and technology to create these jobs. Europe has a Trade Surplus with the world and is now looking to be a leader in AI and Green energy. Meanwhile Trump is having a trade war so that American workers can make paper plates and Air conditioning units. That's a road to economic poverty.

"should be abolished" -- too much power to the large population states, candidates would never visit the smaller ones.

@FearlessFly They have TV's in Montana, do they not? Besides, I doubt anybody's swayed by a quick stop over in Des Moines.

@FearlessFly Candidates don't visit the states that vote for them NOW. It's all about the Swing states.
To much power rests with the small states.

That's true, no solutions offered.

I don't think finding solutions was the purpose of the video. It asked the question, examined some information and came to a conclusion. Maybe there will be a part 2 in which they offer some ideas on how to make it better.

I think it appears that way on the surface.

But when the preferences of the vast majority of people have a statistically insignificant impact on policy, I don't see how we can call that democracy.

@RoboGraham What are the preferences of the "vast majority"?

@barjoe

The majority want to end the wars overseas. But the military industrial complex wants to continue profiting on imperialism.

The majority want cannabis legalization. But the big drug companies Don't want that competition.

The majority want single payer healthcare. But the insurance companies don't want to lose their ability to profit off of people's need for healthcare.

The majority support making public colleges free and forgiveness of student loans. But there is money to be made so it's not going to happen.

The majority want tax rates for the very wealthy to be increased and loopholes closed, but, well, obviously wealthy people don't, so their tax rates continue falling.

The majority want to limit campaign funding so wealthy people can't have as much influence. But wealthy people have already bought the politicians so the bribes continue to flow.

For all of these examples, the majority want what is best for regular people and the special interest want what is best for them. And every single time, it's the special interests who win the political battle because they fund the representatives who are supposed to represent the people.

@RoboGraham I'm not sure about student loan forgiveness. It all depends on whether you owe student loans. Free college? Maybe two year college, I think once single payer was implemented people would be for it. Weed, I'm not sure about the "vast majority" on any of these things. Tax rates yes. Campaign funding would be the key to restoring our democracy.

@Fred_Snerd What evidence is there that the vast majority of American support all those programs? Many people do but not vast majority. Google is worthless when it comes to news outside mainstream.

@Fred_Snerd Vast majority based upon what? I must be in the vast minority then. I don't support full student loan forgiveness. Free college for all. Pot isn't illegal because of big Pharma, they're guilty of a lot but they stand to gain if the schedule is changed for marijuana. Do me a favor. Don't quote everything I say. I can figure out what you're referring to.

@RoboGraham The reason for that is that we do not have a responsive democracy, instead we have a plutocracy. In the latter, it doesn't matter what the majority of people want for policies, the pols will only give us what policies their rich donors want. That's why Americans are so lefty in what opinion polls say they support, but the policies from both parties are to the right of center at least by the standards of European countries. Our pols are only responsive to how much money they get from donors, who are their only real constituency.

@barjoe Unfortunately, campaign funding will never be cleaned up because both major parties love the status quo on that, the Supreme Court has also ruled that limits on campaign funding are unconstitutional in Citizens United as well as Buckley v. Aleo from the 1970s. The only way to clean up campaign funding from big money would be to pass a constitutional amendment and that will never happen with the two major parties being opposed to it. Plus, all the SC justices that are appointed support the idea that free speech and campaign donations are the same thing and so the SC will always protect unlimited campaign donations as free speech.

@TomMcGiverin Big difference between Trump and Biden is SCOTUS. A realigned court could rule on something outside the current precedent that would preclude the necessity to pass an amendment. It could effectively overturn Citizens United. A Biden White House could make the difference in that way.

@barjoe Wrong...For at least a few decades, the presidents from both major parties have only been nominating SC justices that are safely pro-corporate and in favor of the status quo on big money in politics. Tweedle dee and tweedle dum.. You are either ignorant or naive on this issue. Same as how both parties will only nominate prez candidates who will play ball with Wall Street and corporate America. Any candidate, like Bernie, who is against those players and the rich will never get a chance. Biden and anyone he would nominate to the SC would be safe choices to support corporate power and maintain big money's control of the fed govt..

I'm amazed at how intelligent people, of which I have no doubt you are one, are often so blind to how much the two major parties are the same on all the most important issues and policies, namely the ones that actually involve power and money. The ones the rich and corporate America really care about. Identity politics and culture war issues, those are just noise and distractions that really don't matter to the donor class, but are effective at getting the masses to ignore the collusion between the major parties.

@TomMcGiverin Everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant or naive. It makes a big difference who's president because of Supreme Court appointments. Citizens United was 5-4. The makeup of the court was the difference. That being said, Bernie Sanders unfortunately could never be elected.

@barjoe Don't take it so personal. Lots of smart, famous people agree with me about the two parties being the same on the things that matter most, so I'm by no means the only one saying these things. I just happen to be the only one you are engaging with...

@TomMcGiverin I don't take it personally. It reflects more on the person. You are by no means the only person who resorts to insulting the intelligence of people who have a alternate point of view.

@barjoe, @RoboGraham Notice how no matter which party controls which parts of the fed govt., you can always count on our fed govt. having the money to fund tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bailouts for Wall Street and the banks, and plenty of money for the military and endless wars. Money for the common people for their health, education and welfare, not so much. "Sorry, we need to balance the budget and practice fiscal responsibility, etc." Nothing makes it more clearer than this that the fed. govt. is owned by and only responsive to the rich and corporate America. I know in my bones that the main reason we have such low voter turnout is because most non-voters have woke up and figured this out, so they reason elections are not worth bothering with...

@barjoe Oh, that one really hurts, bj....

@RoboGraham Take the Money out of Politics and you are half way there to having a real democracy. Make it illegal for Wall Street and the NRA to fund political campaigns and BAN superpacks

@dermot235

Yes indeed. Problem is, how can we make those improvements if our democracy is so dysfunctional and the elites have such a stranglehold on power?

@dermot235 If you could change the balance of Supreme Court, you could overturn Citizens United or at least limit PACs and make them disclose.

@RoboGraham People have to engage from the ground up. You have to start by fighting for people to do that. That's your starting point

@barjoe The Supreme court will be the same for some time to come. And it tends to be more important on social issue that other issues. So income Inequality and health care and too much Military spending can be changed without the help of the Supreme court. The Supreme court interprets legislation and the constitution. It does not write legislation or decide what the constitution is comprised of. That's done by congress. The Supreme court is not the problem. Congress is the problem

@dermot235

Right, it's going to have to come from the bottom.

We've got to find a way to band together the entire working class. Then we will have strength. It's very difficult though because they have done such a terrific job of dividing us along ethic lines and so many are so thoroughly propagandized that they are willing to support policies and leaders that are in direct opposition to their own interests.

@RoboGraham I think you touched on something there. Race it the issue that has embedded itself into everything that is wrong with the US. I watched the Van Jones Documentary called "13". It answered a lot of question for me about why the US is the way it is

@dermot235

There is a great deal of racial hatred here. And it hasn't gone away just because we had a black president.

It's a really big problem. My own parents refuse to support positive policies like universal healthcare or cost free college because they don't want the blacks and immigrants to get something for nothing.

@RoboGraham
"because they don't want the blacks and immigrants to get something for nothing."
NAIL ON THE HEAD with that one. Totally agree.

I Think there is race issue around so much of how America is different to the rest of the developed world

@dermot235

It's incredibly stupid. Everyone suffers because bigots don't want their tax dollars being used to help the people that they irrationally hate.

It makes me ashamed of my country and my family.

@dermot235 That may not be the case. With a sitting Democratic president. RGB could step down for a younger progressive justice. Breyer as well. Don't wish death on anyone but a conservative justice could pass away i.e. Antonin Scalia and could sway the court 5-4 immediately. That in and of itself would make the difference. You can say what you want about Biden, but he'd appoint a progressive judge. That's the major difference. If Trump gets re-elected he'll have that opportunity. Let's get smart about this.

@RoboGraham And this feeling is so strong that White people are prepared to take collateral damage to their own race if it hurts other races more than them.

@dermot235

Exactly

@barjoe I do agree that a majority of Liberals on the supreme court would be good thing. But I think the Other branches of Government, the congress and the executive can be a greater force for change in themselves without the Supreme court

@dermot235 I disagree. The long term prognosis with a liberal court could protect civil liberties for years to come, conservative 6-3 could be the end of freedom. That's how it works in the United States. A progressive court overturned prayers in the schools. A conservative court overturned the voting rights act. SCOTUS is key.

@barjoe Legislation can be changed to counter Supreme court rulings. The supreme court does not make law, It interprets it.

@barjoe And the Voting Rights act could be changed to correct this

@dermot235 The problem is, in the United States that would take a constitutional amendment which is virtually impossible. A different interpretation by more liberal justices gets it done much more easily. I'm not completely sure how things work in Ireland or UK, but I'm very familiar with they way things work here.

@barjoe No it would not. The supreme court ruled that the voting rights act discriminated against certain states (13 states that refused Black voters their right to Vote) by allowing Federal oversight in theses states. If the Voting rights act was changed to make ALL states liable to federal oversight when the subvert democracy it would be effective again. And the Supreme court ruling would be null and void