The use of the placebo effect in this arena is also kind of a misnomer because you cannot choose to believe in the thing that would be the reason for the false positive. It's very different from something like a sugar pill representing a Tylenol (as opposed to a sugar pill that represents a pill that causes you to be able to fly).

@JeffMurray Some religious fanatic prays for something. That comes true. Placebo. They pray that something bad doesn't happen, coincidentally it doesn't. Placebo. Prayers are useless. There is no pill to make you fly, that's an impossible hypothetical. Fairy tale. No matter who jumps off the ledge, they're dead

@barjoe Precisely my point. Placebo only works when the person believes it can possibly work. Considering you cannot choose to believe in god, it can only provide a placebo effect if you happen to believe. So yes, to believers you can say there could be a placebo effect, but it's not really the same.

@JeffMurray you make some false assumptions.

@barjoe What do you think is false?

@JeffMurray "you cannot choose to believe in god" false.

@barjoe So you're telling me you can choose to actually believe (not just profess to believe) in a god, say Poseidon, right now? You can will yourself to stop believing that the tides are caused by the sun and moon, but instead by the god Poseidon??

@JeffMurray I don't try to influence others but I'll make my position clear. I don't believe in any deity. I'm an Antitheist. I think religion is not just wrong, it's evil and harmful. People choose to believe in fairy tales, they could choose fact based. Don't try to twist my words. I just told you. I hate religion okay. People who like science fiction are fine. If they believe it, they're stupid.

@barjoe You said people can choose to believe in god. If that's true, and I am wrong like you stated, you should be able to prove me wrong by choosing to believe in god, and, consequently, stop believing that which is invalidated by your new religious belief.

@JeffMurray I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I know what I know. There exists nothing paranormal, no God, no afterlife. Fade to black. People can't handle that truth, they choose to believe in fairy tales. It helps them to cope with their ignorance and fear. I don't care what you believe and I don't care if you care what I believe. I hate religion but I don't hate people who are religious. I pity them.

@barjoe
So you're not interested in proving me wrong, just claiming I'm wrong?
But seriously, how does knowing what you know not also let you know I'm right? You are so sure that nothing paranormal exists that it would be impossible to choose to believe it does. The same is true for other people, believers and otherwise. They have no control over it just like you don't either. I know I couldn't choose to start believing in god. I don't know if you were ever a believer, but try to put yourself in their shoes. They are just as sure their god exists as you are it doesn't. There's no choice in the matter. They were told, probably at a young age, that he exists and they proposition was deemed true by their brain. For whatever reason, they don't have that thing inside them like I do that makes them question or doubt. Over the years people have probably said to them that god doesn't exist, and they rejected that proposition as quickly and easily as you did at the thought of a pill that can allow you to fly. Did you think about that and choose not to believe it? No, you immediately rejected it as nonsense. The thought of god not existing is the same for them, complete nonsense, they don't even have to think about it because they KNOW, just like you know what you know, that he does.

@JeffMurray I don't care what other people think. There's a lot of stupid ones out there. That's why people go to Gypsy palm readers. They're very naive to be nice about it. Anyone who believes in astrology, psychics, ghosts, goblins, fairies or God is wrong. We got her here by random and we're privileged to be here. When the oxygen leaves the brain...fade to black. People can't handle that so they made up a silly story about God, heaven and hell. That's how I feel. I don't know why people care what I think. SMH

@barjoe I don't care what you think, I care about being called wrong by someone who can't prove me wrong, or more accurately, by someone who should have the capacity to see I'm right. The people we're taking about didn't make up the god. They were told it was true and they believed it. What we're taking about is consciously choosing to believe something one knows isn't true. A mere 10 seconds of self-reflection should be all it takes to recognize that's impossible.

@JeffMurray I can't prove anything to your satisfaction. I don't care if you're satisfied. They blindly believe in Santa Claus because mommy and daddy told then it was true. I choose to ridicule them for that. Stop picking up for the religious community. I for one don't like them. I have no empathy for them at all. I don't choose to look at their point of view. If that upsets you, I don't care about that either. You're an Atheist! What are you arguing with me for anyway?

@barjoe
I'm arguing with you because you said I was wrong. And I'm not defending religious people, I'm simply stating that it's not a choice. Hell, you just admitted it in your last comment. You said they believe because their parents told them. Why are you still arguing when you know I'm right?

@JeffMurray You're full of crap. You're stubborn as hell and are dead wrong. It's not worth arguing about. Have a nice day.

Is there anyone else here willing to weigh in? Can people just choose to believe in a god?