Quite true. I still think if Bernie had had the stones and integrity to run third party last time or this time, he could have won and then at least forced the hand of the ruling class to either give up the status quo or play their clampdown hand out in the open. Last time, he folded because he said he didn't want Trump to win. This time, he really had no excuse...

Troll.
Duoploy my a--.
NO similarities between the two parties.
NONE.
Just like there is no difference between Trump and the rest of the Republican Party.
In fact, they're far worse than him because they are true ideologues.
As an agnostic, I find that far more troubling.
See you at the Creationist Museum?
I don't think so

@Storm1752

Sick Burn. I'm sure Varn will be proud of you.

@Green_Soldier71

I think you're onto something there.There's been way too much fearmongering over decades for the typical American to vote Bernie without reservations. I think the only way a non-establishment candidate like him could get elected any time soon is if we institute ranked choice voting.

@RoboGraham I've already blocked both of those assholes a while ago.

@Green_Soldier71 I think the general election voters have the balls to vote for someone like Bernie. The problem is that the DNC will never allow someone like Bernie to get their nomination and too many Dem party primary voters buy the bullshit of the corporate media and Dem party leaders, so they won't vote for a Bernie in primaries. But in a general election, I still think most voters would vote for Bernie or someone like him that is a socialist or progressive. How can someone say they wouldn't? We haven't had the chance to do so since McGovern in 1972, the last time a progressive was on the ballot with a real chance to win. The DNC and the corporate media have made sure since then that we never had the chance or knew about having that kind of chance.

@TomMcGiverin

Smart move. They have little to offer.

@Green_Soldier71 Many Americans may not think we need socialism to overcome our country's problems, because they either don't know what it really is or they are too brainwashed by our media to know better, but you can take it to the bank that the continued neoliberal economics pushed by both major parties along with the plutocracy of our political system sure ain't going to ever improve things.

@Storm1752 - you really are an abusive POS, and rather dense to boot. Retract your claws and get a civil tongue in your head or get blocked. The forum guidelines say personal attacks are to be avoided. Make your case, and leave out the ad hominems.

Le Guin never said it was defeated by voting. I just know things need to change. I don't expect a revolution would materialize the way it did in 1776, and we would have our own brand of "loyalists" to contend with.

I think some sort of proportional representation would push us in the right direction, because as a democratic republic, the winner take all system has those coming out on top claiming a mandate when actually nothing could be further from the truth.

@Green_Soldier71 By Pete do you mean Mayor Pete? WFT is progressive about him? To me, he appears to be a moderate Repub on everything but identity politics. So what if he's gay, who the fuck cares? Identity politics are not going to save us from the duopoly's war against the 99% and identity politics is the biggest part of what's wrong with the Dems. They sell and offer us only identity politics instead of any real reform or class war against the ruling class. The Repubs offer the same thing to the evangelicals and poor whites, but they don't really give them anything substantial in return that improves the lives of those two demographic groups. We need to provide a real alternative to both parties that actually impacts people's lives in concrete ways that matter.

As I once said to a Repub at a public flu shot clinic that offered free flu shots to all ( after I heard him spouting off about Obamacare), I told him " I hear you saying how bad socialism is for America and yet here you are getting a free flu shot from a government program. I hope you can pay your bills and feed your family with all your fat conservative rhetoric". Because the reality is, you can't...

@Green_Soldier71 I used to think AOC could be the one to replace Bernie as a progressive prez candidate because she checked all the boxes for those who care about identity politics in their candidates, besides being young. But after seeing the way she's been cozying up to Pelosi and the other establishment Dem leaders, I no longer have any hopes for her being the one to lead any progressive movement into the White House.

@Green_Soldier71 She's settling in alright, in all the wrong ways.. So, were you talking about Pete B.? If so, why are you so hung up on identity politics in candidates for prez? Who cares about their race, gender, or sexual orientation? What does that really have to do with political policy, esp. on economics, war, climate change, healthcare, etc.? Doesn't it matter more if they are on the right side of policies, can't be bought, and have a record that matches their policy positions, so you have some confidence they aren't just lying to get elected? I don't know about you, but I'm sick of people voting for someone just because they identify with them or admire who they seem to be superficially or because they are part of the same identity tribe as them or they are the same demo profile as the voter's circle of friends. Too much trivial reasoning for who to vote for. Almost as bad as the people who voted for W. because he seemed like a fun guy to have a beer with, etc.

It's this obsession with identity politics and image in voting that makes for bullshit like the 2008 Obama campaign, where he was sold like a new car model, all about charisma and image, hope and change, which all turned out to be a lie. But it actually won an advertising award from the ad industry. That kind of voting makes it too easy for the parties to sell us phony candidates, same as selling car insurance with cute, funny ads...

@Green_Soldier71 I remember a joke passed around ie when the church gives food to the poor it's called god's work but when the govt does that its called socialism but true.

@Fred_Snerd - you are correct in that he's worth reading for the LOLs. But he clearly thinks of himself as hot shit on a silver platter, when in fact he's just a cold turd on a paper plate.

@Storm1752 - pull your head out of your tailpipe there, bucko. It's cutting off your oxygen supply. Here's where the duopoly overlaps as you're far too clueless to figure it out for yourself.

Other than that... FOAD.

Seriously.

@Green_Soldier71 - I think more people went for Bernie than the numbers showed because of the rigging by the DNC. Also the independents would have swarmed to him if the primaries were being run fairly, as well as the groundswell if Bernie was actually the nominee. The Establishment Dems and the DNC go out of their way to hobble the progressive wing of the party. This is sad because the numbers have been crunched for M4A showing it would save gobs of money, but the DNC is too much in the pocket of the for profit healthcare industry to promote that fact. If corporate Dems don't release their stranglehold on the party in their quest to maintain their power, they're going to kill it.

BTW, let me say you always make well-reasoned and thoughtful comments, even when we're of slightly different viewpoints. I appreciate your contributions to the discussions.

@Green_Soldier71

I've seen a lot of logical comments from you. You're a welcome addition to this little group of critical thinkers we have here.

For the record, concerning your comment from far above, I don't see much of anything progressive in Mayor Pete. He seems to be just another corporate democrat who is good at playing identity politics and using his sexual orientation to appear forward thinking.

@Green_Soldier71

The party is definitely in need of a young charismatic leader. Someone to take things in a new direction.

Ross Perot peeled off a lot of GOP votes setting up a Democratic Party win.

Some states already have ranked choice voting for president if I'm not mistaken. No constitutional amendments needed.

We have one it seems... Maine.

[reason.com]

@WilliamCharles
I doubt it'll fly.

I'm talking long term, CB. The current system is wholly dysfunctional.

I'm still voting Green, and Team Biden better hope swing states don't abandon him for being totally worthless. Even if that addled piece of crap made marijuana legalization part of his platform and offered nothing else to progressives, he'd crush Trump. But he's too much of a corporate tool for even that compromise.

#FCKBDN

@WilliamCharles long term? Seriously? The USA is in deep shit right now.. You may not see it because you aren't a non white female... Do you have any daughters who can afford four more years of a racist, misogynistic Trump? I guess you accept the sacrifice of women for your long term perspective...

@Cutiebeauty - I don't think you get where I'm coming from (still). I'm voting Green in CA. Dems will predictably get its Electoral College votes (unless others voters bail on Biden too. But CA is safely blue, and Joe is the "safe" candidate according to the DNC).

Team Biden needs to worry about the swing states. His campaign is bullshit, as are his godawful platitudes. He's kicking progressives in the teeth every chance he gets. He fights harder for votes from the right than he does from the left. It's his to lose, and it's as if he's doing everything in his power to be Hillary 2.0. I'm sorry amidst all your Biden fluffing you don't see what an embarrassing dumbass he is. He's utter shite.

@WilliamCharles totally get where you're coming from.. I'm just saying now is not the time.. And for the record, I'm not fluffing Biden at all, nor am I vote shaming. I'm merely taking the position that I will vote against trump.. Any vote not for Biden strengthens trumps position even in safely blue states...

@Cutiebeauty - now is the time to let Team Biden know he has to earn every vote.

He's the one running... now.

@WilliamCharles imo, team Biden will never earn your vote.. You are locked in to the idea of voting third party... Regardless of anything they say or do at this point...

@Cutiebeauty - M4A, legalize/decriminalize pot, BMI, GND, ban fracking, hold Israel to human rights standards, eliminate student debt... private prisons, reduce defense spending, bring troops home... there's plenty he could do. Any one of those things could earn my vote, but he's a corporate stooge.

@Cutiebeauty

@WilliamCharles That's really ridiculous given the fact that I've said repeatedly that I don't support Biden but rather I'm voting against Trump... You don't seem to get that.. I'm seriously starting to think you may be a Russian troll...

@Cutiebeauty - Madam Pantsuit ran a campaign consisting largely of "Not Trump!" It did not energize the base and people stayed home. Biden risks being Hillary 2.0 with his utterly tone deaf campaign.

My vote is not the problem.

It's sad that you equate legitimate criticisms of Biden with Russian trolling. Yet another reason that Biden might lose this thing... people like you with their heads in the sand.

@WilliamCharles my head isn't in the sand at all. I've recently became interested in politics when I joined this community two years ago.. September first, 2018.. And I joined every political group here.. I've listened and read trillions of posts... And I've come to the conclusion that I'm a centrist because any other position, left, right, or third is extreme... Neither are correct.. Each divides people. Your position actually nullifies the American vote.. Which favors trump because his base will die for him...

@Cutiebeauty

A-yup.

@WilliamCharles

Those who post memes as a reply no speakee the english very well nor do they have the ability to support their position...

@Cutiebeauty - I respond to all your comments with whatever I feel is appropriate.

@WilliamCharles spoken like a true bot

@Cutiebeauty - for once I agree with Biden.

@Cutiebeauty

@WilliamCharles seriously... Look at that pie chart again and tell me where you are?!