Is there another explanation for their reluctance to be filmed?

@RoboGraham I see no good reason to use specious argument(s).

@FearlessFly

I think it is necessary to point out the fact that the reason they are eager to ban recording is derived from a desire to keep their nefarious activities out of the public view.

It's not a specious argument if it's true.

@RoboGraham Yellow coats have been targeting Police officers families with harassment and intimidation and violence. This is why the law was introduced. HOWEVER. We either live in a free society or we don't. So the cure may be worse than the problem, giving police free reign to behave badly. We have seen may episodes of Police brutality in France in recent years. Reform of the french police is the ultimate cure for these problems.

@dermot235 It's the same as racist cops murdering black people in the US. The solution to the problem is for cops to stop their brutality. That will end the harrassment and intimidation of cops by the public, not the prohibition of monitoring the cops. No justice, no peace... The choice is theirs and the ball is in their court. If the police departments will not get rid of their racist cops and the racism in their departments, then they deserve the hassle the cops are getting, at least on a collective level. If individual cops don't like being punished for the sins of their dept. or fellow cops, maybe they chose the wrong job.

@dermot235

I don't see how banning the filming of police is a proper response to activist harassing cops. Seems like a pretense for pushing through an authoritarian policy to me. The police harass the people nonstop so I'd say it's a good thing that the yellow vest people are giving them a taste of their own medicine.

I'm glad the Frenchies are standing up for themselves. They seem to be pretty good at raging against the machine.

@TomMcGiverin

Totally agree. But I'd like to see those cops who feel that it's unfair to be collectively punished for the despicable actions of others in their department stay and try to reform from within rather than give up and leave.

@RoboGraham That's a nice sentiment, but not likely to happen very often, esp. in departments where the brass are racist themselves. My guess is that most cops will not choose to be profiles in courage if they are part of the rank and file, esp. in cities where the job is already dangerous and stressful. They will instead usually choose to just relocate to another place where the job is easier and racism is not as prevalent in the department.

@TomMcGiverin

Yeah, decent and courageous cops are few and far between. Not many Serpicos out there.

My grandfather was a DC cop. He's a racist asshole. I'm glad that I hardly know him.

@RoboGraham I never said Banning the filming of Police was a proper response. I was just shedding some light on what's going down in France. And it is a bit more complicated then what a lot of people are aware of. The Yellow vest movement all wear masks so they cannot be identified. In the US the BLM movement peacefully protested and looters used this as an opportunity to destroy and rob small businesses. The Yellow Vest movement combined Protest with Violence and looting shops. There is a big difference. The Yellow Vests had a list of demands that in large part were met by the french government and then they continued to riot and loot in Paris for weeks more (With face masks on) with no particular agenda other than being anti-establishment. Ironically these Yellow vests have been seen lately demonstrating against mask wearing and social distancing and lockdowns, The Yellow vest movement seems to be interested in confronting the establishment for the sake of confronting the establishment. They can protest to a left wing agenda when it suits them and a right wing populist agenda when it suits them too. And when they threaten the families of Police officers they do this to all police, not police that are identified as of having committed brutality. They also target family members, Wives, Children.

@TomMcGiverin So if they have chosen the wrong job should they leave and then the only police left are the racist thugs. Should they not stay and embrace the reform that is needed. Is reform not more likely if the good cops stay

@dermot235

I understand you, didn't mean to imply that you do see it as a proper response.

Unfortunately, there are always thugs who take advantage of a chaotic situation to create havoc for their own gain. I would assume that those who are still rioting after the demands were met are these types. I hope the authorities are able to deal with them. And I would also say to those authorities- if you had been reasonable and governed in the interests of the people, it wouldn't have come to this.

The targeting of family members is of course way over the line. I hope they find a way to shut down these thugs. And I hope people continue filming the police always.

@dermot235 I'm not saying they SHOULD leave, I am saying that in most cases they WILL leave. Because that, my friend is human nature. Most people take the path of least resistance, rather than courageously and selflessly doing the right thing. My guess is that in most police departments that are corrupt and filled with mostly racist cops, the good ones will either keep quiet or transfer to another department somewhere else where they can be good cops or have better conditions to work in. That may sound cynical, but that explains why we have so many police departments were things remain bad, because the good cops who do the right thing are outnumbered by bad cops.

@RoboGraham After the concessions were made by the french Government the number of Yellow vests that continued to riot was the same as they were before. No demands were being made at this point. And we had some Yellow Vests from France come to Ireland a few months ago to protest Mask wearing and lockdown restrictions. These are the same Yellow Vests that vandalised and shut down Businesses in the centre of Paris for nearly 2 months. If the Yellow Vests do this again I would doubt their demands will ever be met again. They do not represent that proud tradition of protest and civil dis-obediance that France is famous for. And the French people do not support them after what they did in 2019

@RoboGraham Just to pick you up on your point
"if you had been reasonable and governed in the interests of the people, it wouldn't have come to this"
The French have protested for the last number of years on a number of fronts, Retirement age, support for the poor, etc etc. To say that the french Government does not govern in the interests of the people is a big stretch. France has a Multi seat district system with rank choice voting. So French people get the government they elect and they deserve the Government they get too. French Workers work a 35 hour Week and get 5 weeks annual leave (Government minimum by law). They retire at 65 and at 55 in some government Jobs. They have FREE health care. And I mean Free. No doctors fees. No Prescription Drug fees. No health care costs at all. Third level education is Free. Pubic Transport is subsidised. Is France Perfect. No its not. Is France Governed well. I think it is. The majority of French people are really Proud of their Pubic services. Their Local Government, Their health Service, Their Public High speed Train Network, Their Government Departments. How many countries can you say that about. Not a lot I suspect

@dermot235

I was unaware that they are being so destructive and unreasonable. Happy to hear about it from the prospective of a European. Thanks for the information. It makes me think of them differently.

I do know that the French people have many benefits that we here in the US could only dream of. I think the reason they have those things is because of their defiant attitude and willingness to resist authority. They have very high standards for their government, their civil services, and their treatment of workers and it has paid off. So I do believe that you are right, that the government does govern in the interest of the people, but only because the people force them to with their constant defiance. I believe that there must have been a reason that this movement got started. A tax on gas, the restriction of pensions and the increase in retirement age, if I'm not mistaken. So in that case, they were not governing in favor of the people. And the French responded appropriately.

@RoboGraham The retirement age was to be pushed out by 1 year. Life Expectancy is now a lot longer in France than it was in the past. The tax on Petrol was part of a carbon Tax. Sometimes people do protest for change and sometimes they protest for no change. Carbon tax is necessary in my view. The protesters are not always right. Having said that, YES, French people do enjoy a lot of good benefits because they make sure their Voices are heard by government. Corporate donations to political parties are outlawed. But sometimes the protesters are wrong. There's a old joke about the french demanding what they want. There are 3 loafs of bread on the table to be negotiate for and divided up between 2 parties. And the French go on strike because they want 4 loafs for themselves.

Cops have a very difficult job. We entrust them with a great deal of authority. Which is why they must be filmed. I understand that being recorded adds more stress and pressure but that's a very small price to pay. I used to have to be recorded while teaching and it was nerve wracking but we did it and didn't complain. I film every encounter I have with police. When pulled over, I just flip my dashcam around and let it roll. It's my best chance at keeping them honest.

I see what you mean about situations being taken out of context and misconstrued. That is wrong. I don't think the solution to it is less recording but the opposite. As you said, the police should always have bodycams so they can fill in the missing pieces and show the public the truth in situations when a recording makes them look bad unreasonably. At the same time, citizens need to record for the same reason. We never know if the cops we encounter will have bodycams. And if they do, are they turned on? Will the footage be deleted shortly after the encounter? Will the data be buried in some archive and never be released? For these reasons, it is best for all parties involved to film as much as possible. Human memory is very fallible but recordings show exactly what happened.

@RoboGraham Slight correction- the camera shows what the camera can see. It cannot ever account for what a person in that moment perceived, felt, heard, or thought.

As a union steward I represented officers who reacted to their reasonable perception of a possible threat, and then had 20 supervisors review camera footage days, weeks, and months later telling them they didn't perceive what they perceived, or that they should not have. The camera doesn't show that slight shift in someone's body weight that indicates they're getting ready to haul off and hit you.

No camera ever invented can show the tension in the air, but we have all felt it at one time or another. Cameras are one element of evidence, but not perfect proof.

@Paul4747 another way to look at it is sometimes people's subjective perception of a moment is wrong. How many officers have ended a chase hopped up on adrenaline and guns a blazing ending in fatal shootings when they really should have reacted differently?

@Paul4747

If a person can see a slight shift in body weight, a camera will see it too.

I get what you are saying, the camera can only see in the direction it is pointed and by watching the footage, we don't experience it the same way as the people who were actually there. So, usually the camera gives incomplete evidence. But that goes for anything. And despite these slight limitations, it's still the most accurate way to keep a record of an encounter and should absolutely be implemented during every single interaction with public officials.