"I'd rather leave this world today thinking God exists and finding out that he doesn't, than not believing and finding out that he does."
How do you respond to this? If you are more agnostic than atheistic, please make sure you engage in the debate.
I consider myself to be more agnostic than atheist and would counter by confirming my belief in a loving higher power. The god of Christianity and the faith itself are not very loving at all. Upon my death, if I'm to find Christianity is the divine truth then I have the backbone to stand by the consequences of my beliefs and decisions. If the Christian god would deem me unworthy because I am bisexual or because I've chosen to never marry and so forth, I would be okay with that. That isn't a god I will support and don't mind if I'm uninvited to his heaven.
When you say never marry, you mean marriage as recognized by the law, right? Because, I don’t want to get “married” either, but I WOULD like to spend the rest of my life with someone or at least a long time with someone. Me and my significant other should be able to define what our being together represents, without the government getting involved.
Also, I love what you said about Christianity and just your general skepticism.
I suspect that the second option is false. If there's no life after death, then there's no way you're going to "find out" he doesn't exist. I think it's one of those propositions where you can leave the world thinking God exists, and never know that the premise was false.
If you really think about it, afterlife is still a mystery though.
Well ok.... its your choice to be. Fear works in mysterious ways. Kind of like god. Wheres the truth and why the mystery?
Well, the reason I'd given this argument a bit of thought has more to do with my personal motives rather than fear. As in, I don't fear hell or punishment, but I know I'd sure feel damn great if I knew my bets were right. Even if my cavader's going to be dead matter, I sure hope some supernatural version of me can discover the truth then. I'd like to think of afterlife as a mystery.
I would tell them about skado’s wager which says that since the only god that I’d want to spend eternity with would be a loving god, I’d rather trust him to forgive my honest error than to live the one brief life I have in preparation for one which god has shared no evidence for.
My response is this....so you are going to live your life based on rules that are misogynistic and just plain stupid, make important decisions based on prayer?! Yeah, you are a dumb ass i don't respect willful stupidity on any level. Now get out!!
Being religious is stupid. Considering a God outside of all religions, but one who simply managed to pull off creation could be more considerable.
To me, it is simply a lack of courage. A hedging of the bet, but not a big deal.
If you don't go all in on poker, it doesn't always have to mean a lack of courage. It's a matter of calculated risks so as to reap optimum rewards.
I tend to believe in evidence and science and when I look around at the world and see all the suffering I have a hard time beliving there is a grand all knowing all powerful all forgiving deity let all that bad stuff happen
Leaves room for a God who isn't all loving, all powerful or all knowing, but somehow managed to pull off creation.
A very weak form of Pascal's wager. What a waste of limited and precious time that you have on this earth to participate in things "Godly" that have clearly been created by man for man. To misquote Hitchens and others "If there is a God he will have a lot of explaining to do before I would ever want to believe in him"
And I'd like to consider the possibilty that God can indeed explain the imperfectly perfect world.
I'm buying in to Kreig's class action suit. Seems like a perfectly logical way to handle it.
Joe Pesci, maybe?
It would seem that someone with that view doesn't do good because they actually want to do good, but because they are afraid of what happens if they don't do good. Which make me wonder just how good of a person they really are.
Just like we don't hold a person respnsible for what they do if someoen puts a gun to their head and threatens them with death unless they do wha tthe person with the gun wants, do we think that the threat of hell making us do good is really all that important as to what we do or don't do out of fear?
Doesn't this hinge on the presumption that belief is a choice. Belief is a matter of being convinced. A person might wish to believe in a god or an afterlife, but a person cannot make themselves believe. We need a reason, a cause, to make us believe. So, what you would rather believe doesn't really make any difference.
If there is the god this person believes in, one who is both omniscient and omnipotent, then he knows the exact trajectory of your life, right? And if this is true, God would know at birth whether you are blessed, or damned, and your choices are immaterial.
@Eponymous, that's right. All their 'arguments' are irrelevant.
Argument assumes God is omniscient and ominpotent.
If, in fact, it turns out that there is this 'God' which so many people say created me, demands that I show obedience to him/her and will torture me for the rest of eternity for disobedience; that God can go to Hell. (Pun intended) Nothing has the right to behave that way.
"I have chosen to believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster. His heaven is way cooler than your god's!"
I apologize for a comment I made and have deleted it. I mistakenly thought that this was from a religionist, rather than from someone asking a question about religionists. Atheist pages on FB have been infiltrated by religionists and they are no longer a safe place for skeptics to share ideas and ask questions.
I'll take my chances not thinking about it until the time comes. he is all forgiving anyway.
I get the sarcasm if intended, but a lot of the arguments rely on God being all loving, all powerful and all knowing. However, this mindset has been spread widely because of religious propaganda. What about a God who simply created life without being all that?
well amongst all the other billions and trillions of lives lost all the time he/it/she won't even notice me. I am very sarcastic but not that time.
His message was poorly delivered. How was I to pick the right one, when every religion all said they were the right one. If he wanted me to understand he should have just shown up daily clearly.
Good argument. What if God deliberately doesn't give us absolute proof so that we're free to choose or not to choose to believe in him? The foundation of this argument is that there's nothing to lose, but a possibility of impressing God, thereby making it a more safer bet.