then you need to pay more attention to the double slit experiment. awareness is a necessary condition for the waveform to break down. I'd also suggest considering quantum entanglement and the speed of light being constant no matter the velocity of the observer. this violates newton's laws of mechanical physics.

@JeffMesser
If there’s anything that scientists are NOT of one mind about it’s the double slit experiment. Any time I see anyone who is not a physicist using the word “quantum” to justify their worldview I become very mindful of how desperately we all dread that moment when the lights go out forever.

oh really? so you don't think that acknowledging consciousness as a fundamental element is noteworthy at all huh? I don't think you've thought this out very well.

@JeffMesser If you have read the Upanishads as you claim to have done then you would know that they support institionalized slavery with the Brahims on top all the way down though the caste system to the untouchables which were and are considered to be less than human. Ghandi was not the great figure that we have been led to believe he was..

@ASTRALMAX no, they dont. and if you knew the difference between the upanishads and the rest of the vedas you'd know that your comment is myopic and inaccurate.

@JeffMesser You remind me of a judge who said the counsel for the defense, 'my mind is made up do not confuse me with the evidence.'

@ASTRALMAX evidence? you don't know squat about the vedas and have not presented any "evidence". the vedanta (end of the vedas) are independent of the samhitas and other karma kanda. The upanishads are the jnana kanda (knowledge portion) if the 4 vedas and they are quite independent of the rituals and structures established in the practice itself. but heaven forbid someone actually know something when you can rattle off some ignorant bs out of context and call yourself an expert. The Isa, Katha, Brihadaranyaka, Mandukya, Chandogya, Ashtavatara, Taitteya etc... upanishads are philosophy. All of this social stuff is completely separate from them. Why don't you try reading them?

@JeffMesser Watch the video in the link that I posted in my reply. It is nearly two hours long, of course, not everyone has the kind of attention span to watch it to the end, especially, when it challenges long held beliefs.

@ASTRALMAX I don't give a flying #$@%# what is in your video. I read the shit myself - sanskrit included. you can't tell me different. I know better. you dont.

@JeffMesser Like a typical religious fanatic your mind is closed to looking at any other point of view because your ever so brittle beliefs, which, seem to form your notion of identity would be shattered. Clearly, by your own admission above nobody can tell you anything.

@ASTRALMAX yes, clearly it is I who am wrong and not you who has never even read the material we're talking about. dunning-kruger reject.

@JeffMesser You remind me of a friend's grandfather who played the piano in the basement of a whorehouse and he never knew what going on upstairs. You are clearly the embodiment of arrogance and I will give you a definition that word that is not to be found in the OED. Arrogance is a flea crawling up and elephant's ass with rape on its mind.

@ASTRALMAX I am still waiting to have reminded you of that time you actually READ the upanishads and considered their lessons. Until that memory or remembrance everything you type is just a bunch of garbage. Heck, even just the Ishapanishad. You can even use Eknath Easwaran's translations ... you need not even concern yourself with the sanskrit!
jagatmithya viveka
satyambhaja kalpitamkuru adharmamtyaja
atmaneva atmana tustah
ayam Brahmasmi
Om shanti shanti shanti

@JeffMesser The recitation of passages from so-called holy books or singing religious nursery rhymes or chanting mantras properly belongs in the domain of belief. Here is a new mantra for you and you can recite it until you achieve the realisation of it. In your case I would recommend thirty minutes twice a day to begin with and if that does not work increase the time to sixty minutes a day. The mantra: I am a silly f..ker! Of course, you need to know that realisation is not some great discovery and merely the awareness of what is the case.

@ASTRALMAX you just like to keep talking about things which you have no clue. I will respond with the suggestion of the brigadaranyaka upanishad - damyata datta dayadvham. da da da as it were (TS Eliot). renunciate and enjoy!

@JeffMesser The Bhagavad Gita is a dialogue between Arjuna and Krishna and is composed as a poem. While Upanishads are commentary which takes the aphoristic form i.e. expressing a truth in the fewest possible words. Both are ancient religious texts which define truth and were passed on to the next generations by word of mouth.

BOTH FANCIFUL OFFSETS FROM RELIGIOUS TEXTS.

Simply referred , it is Atman. The Bhagavad Gita is the summary of all the Vedas and Upanishads. The Upanishad are like the sacred cows from which the milker Lord Krishna milks out the great Bhagavad Gita. So, there is absolutely no difference between the Brahman described in Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. ALL REFURBISHED RELIGION TO ATTRACT THE WEST.

RELIGION OFF COURSE. ALL MADE UP CRAP ALONG RELIGION'S JOURNEY.
It was only after Western interpretations made it popular that nationalists like Gandhi, Aurobindo and Tilak took up the Gita and made it India’s seminal philosophical text. PURE CRAP

The Bhagavad-Gita and Upanishads are based on a collection of animal fables, fables called Panchatantra written in sanskrit influenced by Europeans

@ASTRALMAX once again you're writing stuff and you havent even read it. you've displayed exactly zero understanding between the srti and smrti nor any distinction between the brahmanas, samhitas, aranyaka, and vedanta. Different philosophies in epistemology? nope. not a clue. Different paths to moksha? not a clue. when arya crossed the Hindu kush 4,000+ years ago they came across an Indus valley civilization that was already a thousand years old. you can keep reading and writing little descriptive commentaries 'til the cows come home and you will never be accurate because you havent read it. I suspect you can't even discern the difference between eastern and western science/biology influences and why they are different. In short - you havent learned crap. So spare me your further comments because you don't have the foggiest notion what you're talking about.

@JeffMesser Again, as is typical of you, you make unfounded statements and have no idea what I have read. You strike me as having a mind that is made up of a relgious broth with bits and pieces of everything thrown in from which you distilled your own version. Facts are clearly something that your are highly allergic to and it is typical of those who hold beliefs such as those who beleive in the flat earth.

@ASTRALMAX then display even the slightest iota of understanding or shut up. all you've done here is berate something which you obviously don't even understand and you just keep lipping off and obfuscating like some trump supporter. You have yet to mention non-dualism, spinoza, lao tzu, alan watts, descartes, aldous huxley, or a variety of other advaita supporters saving all your rancor for a cultural issue that ahs nothing to do with the upanishads. perhaps you should read yuval harari and learn the difference between social tools and philosophy? you're not nearly as read as you think you are - especially with zero reference to adi shankara, Bhagwan Maharshi, or Nisargadatta. learn something.

@JeffMesser Reason, unlike belief, requires effort. In many people the desire to belong is greater the desire to understand, hence, the popularity of religions and cults and the lack of the role of reason in human affiars. It might hurt a little to begin with but if you spent a fraction of the time on reason and facts as you have done in immersing yourself in crap, you might learn something, however, in your case it is most doubtful.

Poor messed up Messer whose little brain has been addled by weed and he runs around trying to rearrange the deckchairs on a sunken Titanic.

@ASTRALMAX again - you don't know a damn thing about which you're eliciting opinions. you're taking the conclusions of others and using that as your "fact" without a single factual statement yourself. You can't discern a difference between a 10,000 year old statement about asceticism and denying materiality and one from a millenia back that mandates setbacks in city planning? are you truly that daft? Me saying that you havent read it is actually me being kind ... I could just decide you're an idiot with zero abilities in reading comprehension. It's pretty clear you missed the boat on ishta devata or the purposes of narratives in various paths to moksha. Do you even know what moksha means? state some facts and maybe I will think you're not the complete idiot that I find you to be right now.

into what - reading the upanishads, living in a buddhist monastery in Nepal, seeking spiritual answers for 55 years?

@JeffMesser searching for things that are not there, then making up the story to meet your needs. Siddhartha found his peace, at the expense of pissing his life away.
Go in peace my friend

@Canndue pissing his life away? LOL

meh, believe what you like. you'll be back. you just keep your entropy all nice and high like that.

@JeffMesser High entropy tends to be more exiting and open to more probabilities and variances, low entropy is boring and usually involves large amounts of conformity and surrendering to oppressive order decided by others.

Art and imagination comes from high entropy
Production lines and ritual obedience come from low.

This is why religions love ritual, it supresses individuality and original thought..

@LenHazell53 when you're trying to get from pt A to pt B you don't appreciate high entropy. as I said - you feel however you like. you'll be back.

@JeffMesser I am always one who prefers the scenic back road to the sterile motorway, more to see, more to learn.

@LenHazell53 more places to hide too, but I understand your point. I still indulge. About to smoke some weed right now.

I think on the other side of death is just more of what we're doing now.

Yes in order to reject it as neo-religious word salad.