Okay, let's talk about why Ma’Khia Bryant is different from George Floyd
I presume most people know, but for those who don't, a brief summary:
Shortly before the verdict was read in the Derek Chauvin trial, 15-year-old Ma’Khia Bryant was shot by Columbus OH police. She died on the scene as the officers administered first aid, including CPR. Police responded to a 911 call from a person saying someone else was "after them". They arrived to find Ma’Khia armed with a knife in the driveway of a home. Body camera footage thus far released shows that Ma’Khia appears to have lunged at another person before a police officer fired four times. A knife is briefly visible both in her hand and then next to her on the ground where she fell after being shot.
This was a tragic death, certainly. But I'm going to argue here that, from what we know right now, the responding officers were in a no-win situation. There was a person with a weapon actively going after another person. In this situation, the police have a sworn duty to act, and if they don't, they can and will lose their jobs. It is a clear case where deadly force is allowed: To protect a third party from death or serious physical injury. Certainly someone with knife can kill or cause serious physical injury. Standing by and talking means risking an innocent party being stabbed. That is an unacceptable risk.
People almost instantly called this another instance of police racism. To Ijeoma Opara, an assistant professor in the school of welfare at Stony Brook University (quoted in the Washington Post), the shooting exemplified both racism and sexism, given the familiarity of the situation: kids fighting. But police aggressively responded to Ma’Khia because of sexism and racism, she argued. But while it's true that kids often fight, they don't, or shouldn't, chase one another with knives. Simply labeling it as racism ignores the behavior of the individual. While no-one should be treated differently because of race or color, that works both ways. I would expect to be shot if I'm chasing someone with a knife in front of the police; as should anyone. Nobody gets a pass because historically they have been discriminated against.
I am boundlessly sympathetic for Ma'Khia's family and loved ones for the loss they have suffered; but this was not a deliberate police act based on the color of someone's skin. This was not another Goerge Floyd incident. To imagine that they would have acted any differently had it been a White man chasing someone with a knife is just fantasy. Policing involves split-second decisions with which an officer must live forever if they don't make the right ones. In this case, I think they made the only possible decision where there was no good choice to make.
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19 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Absolutely, a very different and difficult situation for the officers meant that they had to make a split second dicision in this highly stressful situation, especially after no cooperation from the attacker. What was she thinking. Really sad though for the family.
SkyreckedLoemm
Level 5
Apr 25, 2021
0
Sexism is an interesting accusation in this case. Academic research in this area has come to the conclusion that men are punished more severely for a given crime compared to women. It would be interesting to study if race biases this somehow in the opposite direction.
Spongebob
Level 7
Apr 23, 2021
1
He shot her once to stop her and three more times to make sure she was dead.
LovinLarge
Level 8
Apr 22, 2021
3
In the UK I don’t think that would be considered reasonable force.
@girlwithsmiles Nor in any other civilized country that was not enamored with firearms and racism.
@LovinLarge it’s a massive cultural difference/ chasm between the US and rest of the world.
Why do 4 grown men find a 15 year old female with a knife so threatening that they had to ensure a fatality? There’s something seriously wrong with the mindset of someone who would do that surely 
@girlwithsmiles The girl wasn't threatening to THEM, she was threatening to another woman. Big difference.
@1BrentMichael was she still threatening to her after she had been shot once? That’s the subject of this thread.
@girlwithsmiles Possibly. I've known of people IRL who were shot more than once and continued their actions. Rage supplies adrenalin, fueling actions beyond normal.
@1BrentMichael Shooting her in the hand, arm, shoulder or knee and possibly other places would have rendered her physically unable to continue the attack.
@1BrentMichael yes, how many of those were 15 year old girls from America with, presumably, no guerrilla training?
I get it, you want to believe the police are good, doing their jobs, being responsible. We don’t know enough about it from the OP to make a full assessment.
I’d love for you to be right, I’m just unsure.
@LovinLarge Not necessarily. Police are trained to shoot for center mass, because those "shot in the gun hand" things only happen in movies or TV.
@LovinLarge, @girlwithsmiles The girl was aggressive and failed to stop when given the opportunity. Sadly, one of the things that has changed since my school days is that young girls are almost as violent as the boys, and fights are more likely to become lethal.
Well this one certainly was!
Its perfectly reasonable, legal and moral to respond to lethal force with lethal force. There is not a place on the body where if you get shot you can't die, so shooting for the arm or the leg is not logical. (getting shot in the leg is very deadly by the way). Officers are trained to shoot at the torso to stop the threat as fast as possible.
Tejas
Level 8
Apr 22, 2021
1
I can't help wondering if the police officer could've shot Ma'Khia in the leg to immobilise her instead of shooting her dead.
Ryo1
Level 8
Apr 22, 2021
1
Most Countries have assessed that this is too difficult I think, they are admitting a level of loss of control over the situation by discharging their firearm.
Here’s an old article about the UK process, but I’ve spoken to people in Australia and the policy is much the same I think. These guys are not expert marksmen, unfortunately, a tranquilliser dart would also be more humane, but perhaps they take too long to work.
Ryo1:
@girlwithsmiles Fair point.
I cannot say that I totally agree with you. To me it looks like the police are not taught to de-escalate a situation. You don't have to shoot someone dead to do that. No other country but the US does this.
Jolanta
Level 9
Apr 22, 2021
3
A study done a couple of years ago shows that the UK police are massively supporting the Mental Health service, even though it’s not part of their core service.
Obviously you would expect it for victims of a crime they are working on, but their reach is far more extensive.
i read that SHE was the one who called the police.....
JonnaBononna
Level 7
Apr 22, 2021
2
It’s very difficult to make a comment without knowing many factors, but of those made so far the taser ones make the most sense to me.
I would have thought 4 grown police officers would have been able to disarm someone untrained by hand, but factors such as their proximity to her, her proximity to the victim and her stance at the time/ willingness to converse would obviously come into play. .
girlwithsmiles
Level 8
Apr 22, 2021
2
I agree with you. I’m really horrified by this because she was just a child and I can barely wrap my head around the need to shoot a child and yet, she was an immediate deadly threat to another child. 
FreethoughtKaty
Level 7
Apr 21, 2021
3
Oh, my dog! LivinLarge just Blocked me because I disagreed with her! She must really have certainty in her convictions & statements! &, as an FYI, I was not rude, tho I did think she was misinformed.
phxbillcee
Level 10
Apr 21, 2021
3
Sorry, LovinLarge.
Welcome to the club
@Tejas Blocked you, too? What a snowflake. Really, I just disagreed with her assumptions, I did not get personal other than to say she was misinformed.
@phxbillcee to be fair she blocked me because I called her a Karen I believe.
@Tejas Well, if the foo shits...
LovinLarge has a super fragile ego. She blocks anyone who challenges her.
@JeffMurray So it seems.
Ma’ Khia was wielding a knife and posed an imminent danger. Both refused to cooperate with police
Heavykevy1985
Level 6
Apr 21, 2021
3
From what we know, the girl had a knife and was attacking another girl, who was pinned against a car. Another girl may have already been attacked. Cop shot her while she was attacking. Seems clear that the cops needed to stop her. Sadly, the current training on most police forces is to shoot kill rather than shoot to disarm.
itsmedammit
Level 8
Apr 21, 2021
7
Most police forces or most American police forces?
@LovinLarge Talking American. Thought we might have assumed that since this is an American news story.
@itsmedammit Use accurate wording and no one will have to assume anything.
@LovinLarge Get off your fucking high horse.
@itsmedammit Use accurate wording. I didn't invent the concept.
@LovinLarge Do you have something more valuable to contribute here?
How do you shoot to disarm? If you've used a pistol you'd understand that this is hollywood bullshit, especially in a life or death circumstance. A taser might have been an alternative if they had one, but they may not be reliable enough when someone's life is at stake. If you have to use a pistol, you aim centremass and you keep shooting until the other person drops their weapon. In those circumstances you don't have the luxury of choosing what part of the body you'll shoot at.
@Cyklone Yes. The situation is unfortunate & more, but this is NOT the same as the Floyd incident, at all. I hope race didn't enter into it, we can't know what was in the officer's head, but this seemed from the footage to be a split second decision with a life on the line. Seriously, if you know the police have pulled up, you drop your damn weapon, you don't go & attack someone else.
I can see upset, this was a girl, after all, not an adult, but bad decisions lead to bad consequences. I do wish we had more effective 'non-lethal' means of stopping someone, but any who say "should have shot to disarm" has no idea about firearms or police training.
@phxbillcee We agree, that was the point I was making. The idea of shooting to disarm is hollywood bullshit, and if someone is coming at you with a knife, you don't hesitate. Knives can be as deadly as a pistol at close range, if not more so. The cop did the right thing.
Your entire argument is easily refuted with one fact. An adequately trained marksperson or almost anyone really could have disabled her with a single shot. Yet again, an unnecessary killing of a person of color, sadly in this case another child.
LovinLarge
Level 8
Apr 21, 2021
3
People don't stand still while you aim at them the way a stationary target used in target practice would. If you pull a weapon on someone with intent to do serious bodily harm, then deadly force is justified. What would you do? Give her a hug and try to calm her down that way? You would be the one having the funeral in that case.
You know nothing of guns, police training or reacting in the moment. Even heavily trained snipers don't always hit what they aim at, let alone a patrol officer. "Almost anyone" could have disabled her in a single shot??? You do not know what you're talking about.
I agree this was a tragic case, & there are still questions, but just like many police officers, you've made a snap decision based on emotion, not facts.
@phxbillcee Let's see your evidence that I "know nothing of guns, police training or reacting in the moment".
@LovinLarge Your statement.
@phxbillcee There's nothing in my statement that supports your claim. You're just another idiot talking out of his ass.
@ClassicalRebel Shooting someone in a noncritical body part while they're moving will stop their advances without killng them. That's what should have been done here and anyone who is serious about addressing police brutality will endorse this procedure.
@LovinLarge I will no longer dignify your comments with a response.
@ClassicalRebel I'm well aware that you have no valid rebuttal argument.
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