Agnostic.com

18 2

Capitalism or Separation of Church and State

In the current US political environment, which is more dangerous for the middle class and poor, capitalism and the belief in trickle-down economics, or the lack of separation of church and state in our government?

  • 16 votes
  • 22 votes
mn_photo_guy 3 Apr 19
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

18 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

In the UK we have the church embeded in our state. Often it is bishops who rail against austerity policies.
From what I see it is the nature of your democracy that is at the route of you problem. You allow unlimited campaign funding. So surprise surprise big money buys votes. Plus your mid term elections mean that no matter who is in the west wing they have to think about campaigning most of their 4 year term

1

Trickle down obviously doesn't work. The wealthy are the winners with the tax break. Income disparity is at an all time high since the gilded age.. Capitalism does need some regulation. I prefer a more socialistic approach. Separate Church and State, Evangelicals think their Christian religion is loosing ground. Well it is, there are many other religion's that are important too.

1

Neither. Anarchy Rules!

Coldo Level 8 Apr 20, 2018

Anarchy has no rules!
Never met an anarchist yet who said " Sod it, today I will drive on the other side of the road "

@273kelvin Common misconception, there always has too be some kind of "rules"

0

Business tends to work on a single model: Generate as much income as possible in the shortest time possible with the least expenditure of resources. Then it's vertically integrated where more and more resources such as labor, raw materials, influence, credit, and all other forms of 'capital' are controlled by fewer and fewer people. That's America, baby!!! And it shows... "Your Capitalism is hanging out!"

0

Let’s be overly simplistic for a moment. Let’s say there are altruistic people and selfish people. The altruistic people will do good naturally. How can we then organize society such that the selfish people have a positive influence as well? Capitalism is a good system because it leverages human greed and turns selfish impulses into positive results for society. Within socialism altruistic people will do good, but selfish people have no motivation to behave well. And those altruistic people will behave well regardless of the system. So which should we choose? I think giving capitalism its due credit, and then advocating for regulation or progressive taxes is a much more pursuasive then just saying “capitalism is evil.” Trickle-down economics is garbage rhetoric and capitalism is far from perfect, but it’s better than anything else.

The problem is regulation ultimately melts under the weight of consolidated wealth... every time, so far as I can tell. We’re witnessing it right now. We vote the way we’re supposed to, we elect people who say they won’t serve monied interests... and they do it anyway... every single time. I’m sure one of these times Lucy will let Charlie kick the ball... right?

Btw... we never did anything to fix the things that caused the financial crises in 2008. Not really. So expect another round of that... If anything, regulation has gotten more lenient and the next crash will be worse. Basically, the financial institutions and all the other folks who were supposed to “fix things”, just waited until everyone forgot what happened. Wheee! Yay! More bail-outs! Socialism for the corporations... rugged individualism for the citizens. Sigh. Why do people just suck down all these dogmas that are terrible for them? It’s not just religion. It’s politics too.

@Anemynous yeah. I agree with you on all those points. I live in a place currently where it’s very trendy to dismiss capitalism entirely so I’m more prone to defend it. That said, I’m in favor of matching the more socialistic capitalist countries in Scandinavia if we can manage it. I don’t know any good solutions for getting money out of politics.

The difference between capitalism and socialism. Capitalism is about man exploiting man and socialism is the other way round.

2

Cronyism is what promotes the flawed theory behind trickle down economics and is as dangerous to the middle and working classes as Lazes Faire is. The lack of separation between church and state is a threat to the whole of society.

0

Good question?

1

Capitalism is a term invented by socialists to misrepresent economic liberty.

Huh... I didn’t see any specific socialist ties to William Makepeace Thackeray.... who holds the earliest record of the word with its modern connotation in print.

@Anemynous what socialists and people in this thread are criticizing is the socialist view of "capitalism". Did William M Thackeray describe capitalism as a way of accumulating riches at the cost of workers? Because that is not, in any way, what classical liberals defend through individual freedom -- on the terms of Rothbard in The Ethics of Liberty, for instance.

When socialists criticize "capitalism", they seem to put themselves against any non-collective system, thus characterizing any system based on the individual as "capitalist". I refuse to deal on those terms.

0

Intrinsically interlinked!!!!

Blade Runner 2049 baseline test?

2

Capitalism in and of itself is not evil but it needs to be regulatated to a certain degree to prevent exploitation, corruption and income inequality that we have today.

7

I couldn't choose one. It's a horrible race to see which one kills us all first.

Yeah, but religiosity isn't killing me at the moment. Capitalism is.

3

They both suck. Capitalism has no ethical component. It is also misleading to say it stimulates competition. It does stimulate competition... competition for money, that’s it. It does not at all serve to push technology and innovation forward, if anything, it stifles it by making it difficult for superior products and services to gain traction in entrenched, monopolized markets. Without specific structures to prevent it, capitalism will consolidate all available wealth from a community and leave it unavailable to serve that very same community. We could be talking about a neighborhood or a nation... the problem scales.... and I don’t mean “maybe”. We have employed strictures to try to balance out some of these failures. The problem is... politicians can be influenced with money... and what does money want? It wants those strictures gone! As money collects more and more power unto itself the bulwarks set to keep the economy in check erode one by one.... leaving the wealth of the nation to flow into the hands of a few who have no obligation whatsoever to attend to the land and communities they have stripped the wealth from.

8

The way we do both sucks.

8

They’re intertwined.

Capitalism would likely collapse without the church pacifying the masses who’re getting fucked.

4

Which is more dangerous in our language nouns or verbs? Some things just can't be oversimplified.

9

Considering you're speaking of specifically the middle class, I would definitely say capitalism/trickle down economics. The breakdown of church/state separation threatens everyone

4

Capitalism. I believe in capitalism, but unbridled capitalism always leads to bad things for the lower and middle classes. It appears the antitrust laws don't carry much weight anymore, and Reagan's deregulation of television and radio station ownership has really fucked up the broadcast industry, something most people never even noticed.

3

Going to have to go with Capitalism because it has a stranglehold on our economics.

It doesn't have a Stranglehold on our economics it is our economics. Capitalism is the form of Economics that the US participates in.

@MamaMOB We have socialism for the rich, and capitalism for the poor. Is it any surprise that the banks were bailed out after the crash in 2008 (taxpayers foot the bill) but homeowners were evicted with no help? Capitalism could be made to work with very strict laws protecting workers, but right now it is designed to funnel money and perks to the top 1%.

@MamaMOB you're right.
I should have chose my words a little better.

My point was that our current system allows the top 1% to have unbalanced control over the wealth of this country.
Meanwhile families all across the country are struggling to make ends meet.

@NeoXerops now that I completely agree with.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:61861
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.