Well said!

We’re practically already there.

@CuddyCruiser
We seem to be dreadfully close, and moving steadily in that direction. I will be pleasantly surprised if we don’t lose our democracy under the next Republican administration.

On the contrary, if the republic falls, religion will be our biggest problem....

@skado Republicans are a minority, and by a large margin. You worry is overstated.

@Alienbeing
Gallup says there are only 6% fewer Republicans than Democrats. As recently as 2016 they won a presidential election, and their president did everything in his power to overthrow the government and came damn close to doing it. And their constituency was just fine with that. Once it is accomplished, majorities mean nothing. Voting means nothing.

If it were an isolated incident I wouldn’t be too worried. But it is the continuance of a forty year trend, where the Rs push toward authoritarianism and the Ds hold whatever status quo they inherit, never pushing back.

I’m not predicting it will happen - there are too many variables. But if the trend continues... that’s where it appears to me to be headed. Each Republican president, I think... ‘it can’t get worse than this’. And each new Republican president proves me wrong. I’ve come to expect it.

We are not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic. Democracy is not the same as liberty. A mob can undercut your rights faster than a dictator ever could

@skado I didn't check, but if Gallup says the difference between Republicans and Democrats is only 6% I question their result. I also wonder what it is 6% of.

Yes Republicans won with Trump, but ONLY because Democrats ran the worst candidate they could find. Hillary was a horrible candidate and the proof of that is she lost to Trump. Her missteps made her a joke.

Next the Religious Right is no longer much of an influence in the Republican party.

Last, the Jan 6th event did not come close to overthrowing anything, no where near close.

@skado, @Heavykevy1985 It is correct that at the Federal level we are not nor ever were nor were ever intended to be a Democracy. The differences between how our Republic operates are vastly differetn than how a Democracy would work.

I don't agree that a mob can undercut rights faster than a dictator.

@Alienbeing
6% was in Dec.2020
In Aug.2021 it was only 1%

[news.gallup.com]

@Alienbeing really? There is no way that 51% of the public cannot trample the 49%? Democracy is mob rule. 20 meth heads wake up in their vomit every morning has the same kind of vote as a doctor or an academician.

@Heavykevy1985 My comment took task with my belief that a mob could not ruin Democracy faster than a dictator. Your reply tells me you didn't understand that.

@skado I see the question was "do you consider youreslf a Republican, Independent, or Democrat". How one considers themself is not the same as how they many have voted.

Since Biden won the popular vote by about 15 million votes it is apparent that the result did not come close to reflecting how voters "considered" themselves. Hence that particualr poll is rather worthless.

@Alienbeing

Alienbeing: "Republicans are a minority, and by a large margin. You worry is overstated."

Gallup says, in Nov.2020 there was 1% difference between self-declared Ds and Rs.

In Aug.2021 that number was still 1%.

If you look at the statistics since 2004 you see that those percentages bounce all around, sometimes favoring one side, sometimes the other. It's essentially a 50/50 split.

There is no comfortable "large margin".

Alienbeing: "Since Biden won the popular vote by about 15 million votes it is apparent that the result did not come close to reflecting how voters "considered" themselves. Hence that particualr poll is rather worthless."

According to the Federal Election Commission, Biden won the popular vote by 7,052,770. Not 15,000,000.
[fec.gov]

That is 4.54% of the total votes the two candidates shared.

So if you want to go by votes instead of by claimed affiliation it's still only four and a half percent - not a "large margin".

But the president isn't chosen by popular vote.

"If the three closest states (Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona) had gone for Trump, there would have been a tie of 269 electors for each candidate, causing a contingent election and throwing it to the House of Representatives, where Trump had the advantage. Biden's popular vote margin in those three states totaled around 43,000; this is only 0.03% of the total votes cast, but it would entail changing the margins in each of these states by 0.63% or less."
[en.wikipedia.org]

Less than 1%.

Not a "large margin".

.

@Alienbeing I did and I see that you are naive enough to think that democracy is not mob rule

@skado You cherry pick polls that support your position.

Frankly I don't consider this topic worth an argument, so believe what you will. However if you beieve the 1/6 event was more than an abberation inspired by Trump, you are looking for a problem.

@skado, @Heavykevy1985 You see nothing. I never said nor even implied that democracy can be mob rule. By simple definition (the majority wins) it is mob rule, but the composition of the mob can and does change.

@Alienbeing
I’m not interested in arguing.
I engage in discussions with people who have views different from mine so I can learn.

It’s natural to be attracted to articles, polls, etc. that support one’s view. It’s not a crime to share them. That’s the value of discussion - that we are exposed to information we might not naturally gravitate toward.

I’m not wedded to a particular ideological perspective (other than aligning my worldview with reality). So I am ready to change my position as soon as I see sufficient, verifiable evidence.

If I have cherry-picked this poll, please help me see the bigger picture by showing me the poll that found a different result.

I don’t have any certainty about what Jan6 means specifically. What I am more confident about is the general direction American politics has taken in the last 40 years. Jan6 would not have been imaginable to Republicans 40 years ago, but is considered acceptable or even necessary by today’s Republicans. That trend shows no signs of slowing or turning around, and whether next year or next decade, if it doesn’t reverse, it will get what it is demanding.

@skado As I said, I don't think the topic is worth discussion.

As respects 1/6, reading anything into that other than a group being mislead by Trump is overestimating the significance of the event.

@Alienbeing
Your opinion has been registered.

@Alienbeing but it is still a mob.

I certainly hope you are right! I remember a bible waving buffoon with many followers!

@Paganlyl to mandate religion, first would be unconstitutional, second would it mandate one religion or all of them. There wouldn't be enough support from the people to accomplish such a goal. Christians are already outnumbered in the US as is

@Tejas My major concern is those who have no regard for laws ie:
Jan. 6th and it's instigator

I would encourage you to research the history of the state of Utah and its shape.

Discrimination in this country would not be what it is if it depended on explicit constitutional mandates.

A lot of blood was shed to give Utah it's near 90° angles. People seem to forget the Mormon church went on a desperate marketing campaign to prove their Jesus was white... AS AN ACT OF SHEER SURVIVAL.

For any form of discrimination to be institutionalized, it only needs to be a norm of process and ambiguous in policy... not an explicit statement of law.

We’re one election away from a theocratic dictatorship.

@Paganlyl Criminals have no regard for the law but they don't rule. Your concern in unwarranted.

But it will have to be enforced!

I pray that ti will lol

I had more hope before misinformation became the norm

@Paganlyl It used to be that whoever had the most money would win. Now, it's who has the most money AND the best propaganda program.