Really? So spending 10 million dollars in his state castigating him for getting in the way of the Democratic/Biden agenda would be a worthless endeavor? So drowning his state in messaging about what Americans are not getting because of him isn't worth even a try?

No. Coddling him and pretending that his pathetic arguments that its possible to get republicans to support his bullshit claims is the Democratic plan. They don't want to point out the incredible corruption in either of the people holding back the progress of America by vilifying them across the nation with millions of dollars castigating them for their actions because...

@redbai A real Democrat couldn't win in West Virginia. Manchin only got elected because he used to be governor. Maybe it's better to have a lousy Democrat than a real Republican. I don't know enough about him to say.

@Storm1752 If the best they can do is getting a Dem that does what Republicans want, what difference does it make if it's a republican or democrat?

@redbai That he is with the Dems on many things, theoretically, and can be negotiated with, unlike Republicans who are an absolute brick wall? Maybe?

@Storm1752 Why should the Dems have to negotiate with someone who is supposedly on their side?

@redbai what is the alternative? They can't replace him. Maybe the only hope is to elect more Dems, but the fascist right-wingers are busy rigging the elections, so the odds of that happening are getting slimmer by the day...
It looks to me like the U.S. is on the brink of a de facto one-party authoritarian dictatorship. I hope not, but it's looking bleak.

I think you're being nice to incompetent or crooked politicians. I haven't seen a viable argument not to toss Bannon into jail for inherent contempt of congress from anyone - not one.

As far as the power dynamics involved, while there may be 50 Republicans who won't vote for it regardless of the dynamics involved, Dems made promises that they are now backing off on and quite frankly, I'm sick of them doing it and pretending like they are powerless to do anything else. I'm perfectly happy with them passing nothing and condemning the Republican and those to Senators - the Republicans threatened to financially ruin the country. They have no problem fighting for what they want and taking bruises for their actions.

I would be thrilled to see a massive campaign by the Democrats to vilify the names and actions of both those Democrats in their home states. Pay 10s of millions of dollars out of the Democratic election coffers to call them traitors to the Democratic party and why all over the airwaves pointing out exactly what they are doing. I'm tired of reading about how they must be coddled as if their actions are meaningless, make them sweat instead. You know, threat them as if they had melanin in their skin.

@redbai I am prone to giving the benefit of the doubt. But I find it odd to focus anger on Dems as a whole when it is very specifically Manchin who did a complete 180° from his earlier promise of support, and it is whats-her-name from AZ who won't even give the basic courtesy of stating what she is willing to support. I am finding it nearly impossible to even refer to those two as Democrats anymore. The rest of the would-be-majority is left floundering for a strategy.
One thing is certain: This circus, from current day perspective, does not look like a party ready to defend their majorities in the mid-terms. But we need to admit the w. Virginia and Arizona senators aren't even Democrats at this point.

@MikeInBatonRouge "I am finding it nearly impossible to even refer to those two as Democrats anymore."

If anyone in the Democratic leadership made that statement it would be the most fierce attack either of the DINOs would have received for their actions from anyone in Democratic leadership. They are left floundering because they won't attack the two people who are holding everything up, they are coddling them hoping they come around.

@redbai again, they have to consider their end goal. What do they have to gain by pissing off these Dinos? Nothing. They HAVE TO work with them to pass anything, period. Pressure is needed, for sure, but it is much better coming from outside of Congress. If I were Schumer, I would be working BEHIND THE SCENES to that end, in other words, not publicly. I can only hope Dem leaders are doing so. You and I have no inside scoop to know if they are.
I am burning with frustrated curiosity to know what motivates Manchin and Sinema to flout even their own constituents' wishes. That motivation is what needs to be countered.

@MikeInBatonRouge What is the advantage of working BEHIND THE SCENES? What have they gained by coddling those two traitors to the party? Progressives started with 10T offer, went to 6T, bargained again down to 3T and now Dem leadership is talking about getting 1.5 to 2T AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GETTING EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED FROM THE BEGINNING. Their end goal appears to be to put up the impression that Dems actually did something by putting a band aide on a bleeding open wound and hoping people are happy with the fact that their gesture will be enough to win re-election.

I want results, not promises and when I am promised a meal and am given bubblegum and a promise for more in the future while I see others getting exactly what they wanted, promises ring hollow. Especially since it's been going on for generations for some of us. POC have seen this bait and switch before and it's frustrating as hell watching people put faith in such manipulative tactics yet again.

As far as what motivates Manchin and Sinema, if you offered them a dollar more than the people bribing them now I think we'd be just fine.

@redbai you want results, you say. And yet as whittled down as the compromised legislation surely will be, it still has a chance of passing some critically important measures, while your proposed angry frontal assault approach would almost certainly guarantee Sinema and Manchen refuse any cooperation, which would mean ZERO results. I understand the anger. I am angry too. But just acting on that anger as our guiding force is not a smart strategy for Congress. As I said, we need citizen anger to apply pressure to the Dinos. Dems in Congress still have to be their colleagues.

@MikeInBatonRouge With all due respect you didn't answer my questions.

What is the advantage of working BEHIND THE SCENES?
What have they gained by coddling those two traitors to the party?

You have no idea what a frontal attack (I take issue with you characterizing it as "angry" ) because the Democrats don't do them. What I do know is when Republicans do a frontal attack, they get results that are detrimental to anyone not rich and the Dems seem helpless in stopping that and serving pathetic results that don't manage to fix anything in any real way for anyone else.

@redbai I think I did answer. The stimulus bill already passed required the Dinos' cooperation, and the party struck a cordial tone through that process. Since then it remains to be seen, because they are still in proccess of hashing things out with the two stimulus bills, not to mention the arguably more crucial bills to protect votors and the elections process. They are now in what which Nancy Pelisi called the ugly sausage-making process of legislating. Of course I could be wrong. So could you. We don't know what is in the heads of those two Dinos, but you totally ignored my main point, which was that regardless of how much those two richly deserve scorn and demonization, ...and they do, they still HAVE TO be parters with the Dem leadership for even a shred of legislation to pass. For democratic Congressional leaders to publicly crucify them would torch any chance of cooperation. Outsiders need to do that accusations and shampoo ng, if that is even possible.

@MikeInBatonRouge That logic rings of the same kind used to justify MSM not calling Trump a liar and a racist in the first year of his administration despite the fact that he obviously was both and look how well that worked out. Some BS about not knowing what was in his heart or something.

I believe you mean the infrastructure bill which has already passed, not "stimulus bill" and they didn't need the DINOs for that infrastructure bill as 19 republicans also voted for it. So if both DINOs hadn't voted for the bill it still would have passed.

[abcnews.go.com]

The fact is that anything they are discussing is to little to be effective if they are shrinking from the 3.5T because that too was too little to be actually effective. It's nothing but a glance in the right direction metaphorically. I read this morning that one of Manchin's demands is to get rid of the climate control aspect of the bill, so basically screw the viability of humans living on the planet because it negatively affects the dividends of a crooked politician and the answer is to be polite and cordial while trying to change his mind. Really? Has America learned nothing from the experience with Trump?

So to continue Nancy's metaphor, the sausage-making process is not making sausages, it's making labels for the packaging so that the makers can claim they've accomplished something to justify keeping their jobs while those in need will still be waiting for the sausages they were promised.

No I don't think they've been vilified extensively. I think that their actions are obviously bought and paid for and the Speaker of the House should say so with contempt publicly instead of pretending there are good faith negotiations going on. I also think that if Chuck Schumer had any balls he'd be calling them both out on the floor of the Senate as nothing but Republicans in Democratic clothing and dare them to prove differently.

As far as what else they can do about Bannon, they can send the sergeant at arms to arrest him for ignoring a congressional subpoena. There is no reason to send it to the DOJ at all. Congress has the power to throw him in jail without going to the DOJ with inherent contempt TODAY, not months from now IF a trial goes their way. They just don't have the balls to use the powers they have because they are afraid of political blowback AND THE REPUBLICANS KNOW IT. So Trumpists shit on Democratic subpoenas with contempt and fanfare while Dems huff and puff and pretend they're doing something.

I get the impression you believe you've made some relevant point?