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We gotta save these people from bad ideas , not from.poverty

Beachslim7 6 Jan 4
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0

A lot of idiots here would be okay following these folks

0

Excuse me but Hitler's reign was not a form of communism. It was fascism. Funny, in the end both are similar in that the system props up a ruthless dictator but both see the other as the enemy. I can see putting all ones eggs in the same basket (communism or even socialism being akin to communism) is faulty (non) reasoning.

1

There are some here who could use a few remedial political science and history classes.......

1

The Irony part is All of these 3 Assholes are Recognized as Atheists too !!! 😀 😂😂😂
but in Reality they have nothing to do with ppl like Us! right!?

Diaco Level 7 Jan 5, 2022
1

Accurate.

The socialists in America say that is not us, we want to look like Denmark and Sweden but dreaming is one and what actually happens is another. All societies are not the same. Also I have not seen successful people talk about socialism, it is only the "Occupy Wall Streeters" bunch who is a frustrated and angry at others tiny section of the society that keeps ranting and venting without actually doing what successful do. The funny thing is none of them would go and live in any socialist country. They all want the abundances, availability and opportunities with individual freedom that the capitalism offers. These are the same fools who want to give their hard earned money to a hunch-back, old, heart attack patient, forever-in-Washington, nothing-to-show-for-it, 80 year old communist and socialist Bernie Sanders to become the head of the only superpower and world's largest 19 trillion Dollar economic behemoth. They are out of their minds. Bernie cannot manage his own shit and they want to give the keys to the big castle to him. American voters are not fools. They will keep rejecting him and his fools just like they have two times in a row in 2016 and 2020. But again, fools never learn, do they?

4

What @Rignor said!

Don't confuse socialism with authoritarianism. Or capitalism with democracy.

Rather funny to ignore the real social democracies in Scandinavia.

He doesn't ignore them so much as refuse to recognize them for what they are.

6

Oh for fucks sake read a book, will you?

If not a book, at least read this: [thoughtco.com]

Those 3 are neither communists or socialists. They were dictators of totalitarian states. They can call themselves whatever they want, but they were in no way socialists.

And for the record, no one is suggesting a communist system. Basic human nature has proven that communism can never work. What most people on the left are suggesting is a form of socialism called Democratic Socialism, where in basic needs are provided by a society, and consumer goods are obtained in a free market economy that includes worker involvement directing the course of that market.

Capitalism has proven itself unable to provide for the basic services of people. This is why we don't have police and fire departments that charge for their services. Capitalism is why we have a failing healthcare system. Capitalism is why we can no longer provide housing to people at a cost that does not restrict their other basic needs (like being able to afford food after paying for rent). Capitalism is why housing prices exclude a majority of people from participation in the real estate market. Capitalism is why the Capitalistic nations have been in a constant state of war since those 3 were alive. Capitalism is why the Capitalistic nations don't actually have a democratic form of government (oligarchy much?).

Capitalism has one major flaw: the consolidation of wealth towards those with the capital. The requirement of Capitalism to always be in a state or growth to provide the incentive to continue to be successful means that earning profit must be the single biggest priority of those with capital. On paper it sounds like a good plan; the purest form of incentive. In actuality, maximizing profits over any other goal means that the basic needs of those without capital are subverted. Without some incentive to provide for the basic needs of those who make capital into something, those with capital will always choose to make more profit than pay for basic needs. Eventually, we end up with what we have not; a massive pooling of wealth in a select few individuals, who have no incentive to use that wealth to make any difference in society.

The end result of Capitalism will be this:

  • You have to put out the fire to your own house, or pay an arm and a leg for the professionals to do it...
  • You will have to make your home into Fort Knox to prevent an invasion, else pay an arm and a leg for a professional guard force...
  • You will have to treat your own illnesses,or pay an arm and a leg for an ambulance to take you to a hospital, where you will need to sell your home to pay for the most basic of medical care...
  • You will have to educate your own children, or pay an arm and a leg to have a teacher do it for you...
  • You will have to grow your own food, or pay an arm and a leg to guard your food while it is delivered to you...

And remember, you only have 2 arms and 2 legs. Sure, your household might have more, but are they limitless? And do you want to take your children's arms and legs to pay for your basic services? What will they use for their future.

Please stop feeding into the Corporate Capitalism Propaganda, and educate yourself in things they don't want you to know. Learn about how those with capital will always try to keep you as uneducated as possible, in order to maximize your potential to increase their capital, at your expense.

Socialism and Communism fail every single time. When the people they are controlling become miserable, the way the Socialist/Communist/Collectivists retain power is to become dictators.

How many times do you have to see it?

Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, The Castro Brothers, Chavez.

You could argue the USA and the UK are the two most capitalist countries in the world.

How many dictators have we had in the last 200 years?

@BD66 NONE of them were Socialist. They were totalitarian Cults of Personality, like tRump would like to get going here...

@Beachslim7 "Capitalism causes the price of goods and services to go down. Socialism causes prices to go up." Talk about ignorant. The prices of goods are set by markets, by Supply and Demand. Yes, economic models used can influence S/D, but so does the weather!! No one is talking about eliminating market driven economies entirely. But putting basic services in the hands of a profit motive only leads to those services being unusable by the majority of a society.

@Beachslim7 Congratulations on understanding basic market forces!! Now, lets see if those same market forces apply to essential services like, say, healthcare. Do you think the same demand profile applies to things like, emergency care? Do you think that the same number of patients will arrive at the same time of day? No, they most certainly don't. But ER's still need to staff like they are as busy as they will possibly be. It's actually worse for ambulance services. Fun fact: most metrics that judge efficiency of an EMS system will just a system not adequately staffed if the service's overall active time exceeds 25%? In other words, 75% of the time, an ambulance crew should be available for the next call. So, does the typical Demand function when applied to Supply dictate the appropriate price point? No, it doesn't. This is how an ambulance ride will cost $1000 (or more likely more). Therefore, a market solution to healthcare is inappropriate. And by the way, Bernie Sanders is not a Communist, he is a Social Democrat. If you knew what those were, you would know the difference.

3

In 2007 it was suggested in this article that America had caused 20-30 million deaths. Since then there have many more deaths directly attributable to American action.

"
The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world. "
[fort-russ.com]

And most of that was to defeat Socialism, Communism, and other forms of Collectivism.

It would be true irony that the lefties in the USA would take us down the path of collectivism after we killed all those people to protect the USA from collectivism.

6

Democratic Socialism is totally different from a totalitarian State with the shoddy veneer of Communism.

Hitler's fascism was diametrically opposed to Stalin's 'Communism', tho both were totalitarian.

Along with Hitler & Stalin, Mao & Pol Pot led Cults of Personality (remind you of anyone?) that led down horrific paths. We don't need a (supposed) hero, we need good, competent government that takes care of its people.

The Right constantly conflating 'Communism' with any social program or push for equal rights was idiotic in McCarthy's time & just ludicrous now. Get a new drum to beat you un-educated troll!

P.S. Neither Stalin, Hitler or Mao were Socialists. Just ridiculous...

@phxbillcee Hitler and his party literally took over the German Workers Party and changed the name to the National Socialist German Workers Party.

[en.wikipedia.org]

He called himself a socialist.

He behaved like a socialist.

so·cial·ism

noun

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

What kind of twisted logic could you employ to believe Hitler was not a Socialist?

@BD66 Don't believe everything Hitler said. At the same time he paid lip service to the workers, he was in bed with the oligarchs and monarchists. He was USING them all. He was, above all, a right-wing fascist and totalitarian.

Before Hitler assumed power, he was aligned with the right wing German nationalists who fought armed street battles with the German Communists (in the 1920s). After he assumed power, he threw all the Socialists in concentration camps.

So no, Hitler was NOT a socialist.

@nicestuff He used Socialism to get into power, then once he was in power, he became a dictator and did whatever he wanted to do. That's a common theme. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, The Castro Brothers, Chavez. Why do lefties keep falling for it?

@BD66 Again, don't confuse authoritarianism (your list) with social democracy. Look at present day social democracies in the Scandinavian countries.

Also, look at what Churchill, Eisenhower, Roosevelt, and other contemporary WWI-era leaders of democracies called Hitlerism - they called it FASCISM.

@nicestuff Don't confuse Scandinavian countries with Socialist countries. This is the definition of Socialism.

so·cial·ism

noun

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Scandinavian countries are not Socialist. You can buy stock issued by private companies in any Scandinavian country.

You cannot buy stock issued by private companies in Cuba or Venezuela.

@BD66 I thought you had more sense at this point. Beachslim I knew was woefully ignorant, I thought you had at least a bit more sense...

@BD66 I see what you are saying here. All of these Western democracies - Sweden, Iceland, the UK, the U.S., Germany, France, etc. have healthy portions of capitalism AND varying degrees of socialism (whether publicly controlled fire and police departments, public roadways, national defense ... etc.). These social democracies are capitalist - you are right about that. The Scandinavian countries I'm referring to are COMMONLY called social democracies. They have some more ELEMENTS of socialism than we do in the U.S.

It's a matter of details. I think some things are best left to free-market capitalism, while other services are best handled either by the government or not-for-profit. I think that's where the real disagreement is.

@nicestuff Exactly! UK, the U.S., Germany, and France are capitalist countries with safety nets. Some have more generous safety nets than others, and that's a good topic for debate.

Cuba and Venezuela are Socialist countries. It's a totally different story.

Do you live in Champaign, IL?
It's good to see another Central IL person on this site?
It's also good to see another open-minded person on this site.

Thanks. Yes, I'm in Champaign.

I'm religious on democracy. I'm not dogmatic on economics - or try not to be.

@nicestuff You know Champaign was famous as the location of a huge victory for atheism:

[en.wikipedia.org]

My brother and her son Dannel McCollum used to talk Champaign area fishing all the time:

[en.wikipedia.org]

3

Who is we
Got a mouse in your pocket ?
And .
U left Mussolini out . I am personally and forever offended 😂
And sense that I am in a very bad mood , let me waste my x and ask u this : what do u do for living ? What’s your formal education ?

6

That's Fascism. Iceland is socialist. There's a big difference. In Iceland they give people stuff. Medical care is a right, not something you could lose your house over. They have a 4 day work week. The people are happy because they make a living wage and aren't stressed. That's socialism.

@Beachslim7

1

I have several friends who grew up in the old Soviet Union. They did ANYTHING they could to get out of the collectivist hellhole and to the USA, the land of opportunity. They look at the lefties in the USA with stunned disbelief.

BD66 Level 8 Jan 4, 2022
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