Fox News MUCH?

@Redneckliberal You evidently have been brainwashed by MSNBC and CNN!

@Redneckliberal No I don’t watch Fox News much I just pay attention to what the looney democraps are doing like gun control, higher taxes, more government regulations backing radical groups like BLM and a idiotic foreign policy.

@Trajan61 YOU...Fox News VERBATUM

@Redneckliberal So I guess you think this runaway inflation is ok? You can definitely lay that at the Democraps feet and it will likely sink them in the midterm elections.

@Trajan61 AGAIN...VERBATIM

Do you actually care whether Ukraine is invaded? Or that 14,000 Ukrainians are already dead? If you do, you would not engage in this petty, predictable, demonization of the Democrat. You do engage in it though and so I conclude that you don't actually care that much.

Biden has done not-badly, considering the crud he was handed by his predecessor, who enabled and catered to an already-violent Russian leader with clear tyrannical anti-human-rights inclinations as no other American President ever has (as far as I know). Comments such as yours merely poison the well of discussion and, if anything, make it harder to make real criticisms of President Biden. So, I'll also conclude that you actually don't want rational discussion to take place to understand the strengths and weaknesses of President Biden's approach to matters.

I've been sort of half-impressed (without knowing much more than we've heard in the past few weeks) with President Biden's attempts to try hard to stop what was happening, but a point raised today in news stories does serve I think as a tempering one. This week President Biden has imposed sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG, the unit of Gazprom that has been involved in the key natural gas pipeline. Ok, but apparently last year the Biden Administration declined to do so. I don't know if that was a mistake or not, but it sounds like it could use some discussion.

@kmaz The Ukraine was not invaded when Trump was president. In fact the Crimea was taken from the Ukraine while Obama was president and currently Putin is in the process of taking several more areas from the Ukraine and may take over the whole country. Biden initially approved the Nord Stream 2 pipeline but blocked the Keystone XL which was completely idiotic. Biden’s policies have resulted in the worse inflation I’ve ever saw. Blocking the pipeline and stopping drilling on federal land is directly responsible for higher fuel prices. I hope the American people wake up and throw the crazy democrats out of office in 2022 and 2024!

@Trajan61

You have hijacked this thread (or tried to) and predictably have not addressed yourself to the point of it. The point of this thread particularly includes the extent to which former President Trump (indebted to a murderous Russian Dictator), and his supporters, contributed to the issues today. The matter has been made worse in recent days by the disgusting spectacle of a former American President failing to condemn the actions of the same murderous Russian Dictator. Do you have anything to say about Trump's handling of Russian matters when Trump was in office, and after he left office? Do you wish to dispute the premise? Then please do so, without trying to distract from the thread.

And no, pointing out that Trump was not President when Russia first invaded Ukraine does not qualify as a response. The point is the extent to which he generally favored the Russian ruler when he was in office, and now when he is out of office.

Thread hijacking impedes all cogent discussion, up to and including not only fair plaudits for things that democrats may do well, but fair criticisms of things they may not do well. Distraction and demonization, often tools in that hijacking procedure, impede cogent discussion. If my time permits, I will not be party to facilitating or condoning hijacking of discussion (carried out in millions of examples every day across the USA) by the very same folks who share a morally despicable approach to these matters with our former President Trump. Please address yourself to the point of the thread that I took the trouble to create (preferably without engaging in irrelevant demonization of the left), or be blocked from further reading or responding to whatever I may have to say.

Thanks,

@kmaz
Do you are to politically biased or restrained to entertain opposite views. Actually I do read New York posts. And Washington ok, respected journalistic publications. I admit I don’t bother with journalistically nil and void oft quoted like hugging on posts. Maybe you can elucidate why the combined readership is less than maligned Fox News
You say I hijack this the post to an opposing POV. Isn’t that an attempt to squash freedom of speech. In my experience the socialist responder resorts to us deflection, disrespect , and shimmies closed minds. Or are you resorting to the leftist POV of canceling. I thought group more tolerant instead of narroz, living in an echo chamber block if you must Educated response is all relative to the perception

@Trajan61

Ok, thanks for the response. I do think some harshness was justified from me, but I do not like having to be that way, and it does seem to me you are trying to meet things partway here.

• With respect to what you read, I was not the one commenting on that, though the other person may find your response of use. I do think that a lot of people who practice the tactic of taking criticisms of Trump and turning them into criticisms of whatever figure on the left they can find.... a lot of those folks get this tactic directly or indirectly from right wing media.

• [Side note: Yes, Washington Post is respected non-right-wing media. New York Post (if that's what you were trying to reference) is the usual right wing nonsense, owned and ideologically controlled by the News Corp which is the sister company of the intellectually bankrupt company that owns Fox News (Fox Corporation).]

• Another side-note here is that "echo chamber" issues (sealing ourselves off from other points of view) are to some extent an issue throughout US culture, but that is true of the right as well as the left. Much of the right wing media form the reverberating walls of that echo chamber, helping anyone who has entered that framework room to have difficulty leaving, and making a true farce of defending capitalism and freedom, or considering points of view that are actually opposed to theirs.

• With respect to my accusation of thread hijacking, what I was responding to harshly, above, is the relentless predictable tactic of responding to criticism of Trump by throwing broad-brush throw-away comments around as to any convenient bulls-eye on the left. It is a logical fallacy (which one I don't quite recall) to respond to an argument by invoking some other irrelevant person and action, and we've all been through more than five years of it from Republicans, and I've had enough.

I do think you were trying to outline an opposing point of view, but in the end I think it just amounted mostly to the usual discussion-ruining misdirect. I'll tell you what, I'll give you an example of what I think would be a view that opposes the basic point here:

I have pointed up what I think is Trump's disgusting legacy of coddling, being beholden to, and to some degree doing the bidding of a scheming and murderous Russian dictator. A way to oppose this might be to say that:

1. in some circles it is not considered to be proven that Trump was beholden to Putin.
2. Trump did not necessarily accommodate everything that Putin wanted while Trump was in office.

I personally don't think there is much merit to these points and I don't know how true the second one is, or even if it is true whether it is worth anything. Trump often may do something just as a token action, for show. However, I think those would be examples of directly addressing the issue I raised.

Separately, if someone wants to discuss the pros and cons of Biden's efforts on Ukraine, I can do that, perhaps best in another thread. I meant for this thread to get at what I think is a vitally important and central point, which is we have had an unprecedented situation of an allegedly "conservative" republican coddling and catering to an anti-individual-rights Russian leader, and we have heard virtually no outcry from the right about this. Those are points we not only need to talk more about, but we need to understand that there will likely be consequences, such as we are experiencing.