Agnostic.com

13 2

question about the Christian Bible:

Hi - I was raised Jewish and don't claim to know that much about the Torah, much less the New Testament. When I hear Christians quote "The Bible" it almost always seems to be from the New Testament. I'm assuming that it's ok to quote from the "old testament" but can anyone clarify if the "Old Testament" (or whatever it should be called) is something that is focused upon in many Christian discussions? Are there certain denominations that are more into it than others?

kmaz 7 May 31
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

13 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

Yes, modern Christians will reject the OT except when they find it convenient. Essentially they don't believe in Yahweh, but rather worship Yeshua as their God. It was not always this way. It seems the change became dominate about 25 years ago. Protestant Christianity is a very different religion from when I grew-up.

very helpful, thanks.

4

To many Christians the old testament doesn't count. It only shows their selective mentality. They only know about certain parts of the new testament as well. It's why so many atheists 'saw the light' after reading the whole rotten book.

"To many Christians the old testament doesn't count."

Ok, but here is a question: is there some formal reason for that mindset? Is there a rule within Christianity, or within some denominations, for how they see the "old testament" differently, and as not requiring of them the same fealty as to the New Testament? In another part of this thread Gwendolyn talked about talking with Christians who quote the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) but who do not see themselves as being under the law as the Jews are. (Something like that). So, I'm asking, because I don't know... can anyone shed more light on the question of whether some Christians formally see the older writings as something to which they do not owe the same level of loyalty as to the newer writings?

I seem to recall a conversation with a Christian friend a long time ago where he alluded to seeing the old testament in a different light in a way that sounded standardized or accepted within his circles, but I can't now remember the details.

(And yes, I do see both the old and new book collections as mythology-at-best, and not necessarily good mythology or philosophy at that, but this point I'm asking about is something I was always curious about when I was somewhat involved with Judaism, so this seems like a chance to satisfy my curiosity, now that I'm speaking to some ex-Christians.).

@kmaz I think to them it harks back to days before the so called 'christ' saved them and allowed humans to have immortality. To them those days are of little importance + they are barbaric.

The Old Testament is an embarrassment to most normal decent people. God goes around killing people for slightest sin plus he orders women and children killed. I’ve read the estimates are that god killed 25 million people in the Old Testament

3

If Christians do quote the old testament, it is usually because they don't understand the context in which it was written. For instance "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" is oftne used by Christians as justification for revenge. However in context, it was actually a limitation on revenge itself, to prevent the escalation of violence. Before the rule/law, for slight offenses, in revenge people would wipe out enire families. I suspect the elders saw that if revenge was not limited, that it could lead to their entire tribe being wiped out when those who revenge was made seek their own retaliation.

Anyway, that context is totally lost on modern Christians.

You make an interesting point, one I didn't know, ... though it's isolated. I'm guessing, without knowing, that there are other principles quoted from the old testament by modern Christians that might be understood better (as to context) when quoted.

6

The Torah/Old Testament is very blood and guts, so it's very popular with Far Right Christians. Not surprisingly these same Evangelicals tend to be pro-Israeli Occupation but still hateful of the people they consider to be Christ Killers.
Religion is such a weird and tangled mess of the basest parts of human nature. Best to be avoided.

"Religion is such a weird and tangled mess of the basest parts of human nature."

Thank you. Best description of it

2

Sure, especially when advocating for really hateful crap like gays being abominations, for example.

4

They like having a big book which has many different views, because then you can find whatever you want in it.

And it should not be forgotten that even the new testament splits into several quite distinct parts. The writings of saint Paul which probably were written first, the Gospels, Acts, and the Revelation. Generally speaking the Christians tend to prefer, and only know, the gospels, because the stories are easy to understand, and most christians wrongly assume that the Gospels came first and inspired the others.

2

No idea. I can say though however, that many of the hard right “evangelicals” swear by the “King James” version of the new testaments, claiming it is the closest one in comparison with the old….🤨

9

When self-proclaimed christians cite "the bible" it doesn't mean any actual book. They are citing the stuff that comes out of a chosen preacher's mouth.

American Christianity is a self-made religion. You shop around looking for a pastor that says what you want to hear and just call that "gospel".

Sure nuff!👀

i suspect this is too broad brush. some christians (what percentage is hard to say ) have read and studied their bibles, just as some practicing jews have read and studied torah.

still i'm not sure, once the books are read , and maybe studied thoroughly, ... it's hard to say what percentage continue to engage beyond the weekly preacher's food for thought. probably not very many in some denominations

Best description of American christians I’ve heard!

1

As I understand, the old testiment does not include all writtings that could be considered from the national archives of the nation Israel prior to 2000 years ago.

The old testiment laws are antiquated and to my knowledge the nation of Israel has a different jurisprudence in modern times.

Apart of understanding the corrilation between old and new testiment is giving documentation of the "messiah " , Jesus and how his new testiment purported life is connected to the old testiment.

If you get into understanding meme as coined and defined by illogical atheist and BRILLIANT biologist Richard Dawkins, you would begin to understand the biological nature for Jesus of the new testiment.

Prophesy is a type of meme. The thing that made Jesus of new testiment the "anointed one" or messiah was that his life was the meme of the old testiment laws and prophets coalesces into the new testiment life of Jesus.

It's like the movie "Stranger than fiction ", with actor Will Ferrell (2006). To understand the biological nature for Jesus of new testiment and understand what controlled Jesus in new testiment, you can sample the movie. As a particular example of how the author's words in the movie controlled or dictated how the character, played by Will Ferrell, was forced to do what the author wrote.

Word Level 8 May 31, 2022
5

They always quote the Old Testament when they're trying to justify their hate...

6

Christians will often quote from the old and new testament, often out of context to argue/defend and sometime abuse non-christians for questioning their beliefs.

Betty Level 8 May 31, 2022
11

The Old Testament is more about god's wrath.
That's where the most frequently told bibles stories come from.
Adam and Eve, Noah and the great flood, Moses and his adventures, etc, etc.

The New Testament is just an "updated" interpretation.

It's ALL fiction. Just like every other "holy" book.
None of them should ever be considered a historical reference book.

Well said. 🙂

@Betty Thanks!

8

They definitely use the old testament when it fits their narrative of the people and behaviors that they should hate. Gay people? Use the old testament. Women of "ill repute"? Old testament. Sex outside of marriage rates the old testament, as does unmarried pregnancy.

Thanks, I didn't realize that pattern was there.

@kmaz but they conveniently skip bans on pork and shellfish, etc. Xtions always pick and choose. The bible has a lot of contradictions in both testaments.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:669229
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.