So people will see them. Otherwise they go unnoticed if I post to the group. And it’s a way of advertising the group. I usually get one new member each time I do it.

Maybe thoughtlessness and shallow talk is all we need.

@skado

Why not be just a good human being and do good things instead of doing big words, and convoluted discussions?

@St-Sinner
Those aren’t mutually exclusive. Why not happily contribute what you have and happily allow others to contribute what they have?
We are not all the same.

@skad

Everybody will do what they want irrespective of what I say, just like people believe in Noah's arc and other bs in 2022. I am just giving my perspective.

@St-Sinner
Your perspective is welcome. That’s why I make these posts - to generate dialogue.

What I hope you understand is… I’m not promoting belief in things that aren’t real, or any kind of bs.

People in all fields are capable of honesty/dishonesty, competence/incompetence, generosity/selfishness.

There are genuine and fake plumbers, dentists, scientists, clergy, teachers, merchants, politicians, artists, and auto mechanics.

The universe is cold, chaotic, and indifferent to human suffering. There is no benevolent master watching over us. Nor are there any super-talented humans who can make everything right for everyone. Some types of suffering are going to be unavoidable.

There is one type of suffering that is not unavoidable - that which we unconsciously create for ourselves. But since we do it unconsciously, we don’t know how to stop.

Genuine religious teachers are are those who help people learn how to stop creating suffering for themselves. This won’t make the world’s unavoidable suffering go away, any more than the most honest auto mechanic can make the world’s suffering go away. But it is a positive contribution toward reducing the pain and dysfunction in the world we all have to live in.

The two men in this video have not lived gold-encrusted lives. They have not only been good humans and done good things, they have helped thousands of others learn how to stop creating suffering in the world, while they themselves have lived near material poverty. They are among the best examples of human honesty, competence, and generosity this world has to offer.

@skado

1. Material poverty? Thich Nhat Hanh's net worth was $1.7 million. David Steindl-Rast is worth somewhere between $1 and $10 million. Even if it's not used for anything other than a safety net, that alone is one of the biggest stressors and sources of suffering they couldn't experience. Not only that, but it also means that they took these millions of dollars, and all the money they spent throughout their lives, from the people they claim to have been helping. I'm calling bullshit on your 'best examples' claim. Next you're going to tell me Mother Teresa wasn't an evil, greedy cuntbag.

[wepublishnews.com]

[buzzlearn.com]

2. You're whole avoidable suffering nonsense is one giant catch-22 and senseless. If it arises from your subconscious then it's unavoidable. Problem is, EVERYTHING arises from your subconscious, so it's always all unavoidable.

@ChestRockfield

So so right!

@ChestRockfield
Yeah, I remember when a million bucks was a lot of money. I used the phrase “ lived near material poverty” very deliberately, not to mean trapped in a destitute life, but that they engaged the material life very modestly - no gold toilets, no lavish lifestyles… that I know of. The fact that they had a middle class income is not surprising. They earned it. And who is anyone supposed to get their money from other than from those they help? Sounds fair to me. Hahn wrote a lot of books. Why shouldn’t he receive the proceeds of his labor?

I was never the least bit fond of Mom Teresa. I was never impressed by anything she said, and I’ve heard all the rotten stuff about her, and figure it’s probably true. It’s just as silly, to me, to think all people of a given profession are heroes, as it is to think they’re all villains.

If you’re unable to read Steindl-Rast because of a prejudice against his profession, then you are in no better position judge him than the person who thinks everyone in that profession are saints.

It’s easy to make blanket negative statements about a class of people, but it rarely reflects reality. People are individuals, and these two guys stand out as some of the most thoughtful and down to earth in their business.

As for the unconscious stuff… you seem to be saying people can’t learn to be more aware of their motivations, and change their behavior.

There were lots of things I felt compelled to do as a teenager and didn’t know why, but now understand where some of those impulses come from, so I can consciously choose whether to do them or not, and I bet the same is true of you and most people.

People can learn that stuff by trial and error, or they can make a more structured study of it, but yes, as Carl Jung understood very well, material from the unconscious can be brought into conscious awareness, with the result of reduced psychological suffering.

This is not about any of that, and I already know you aren’t interested in that, thanks. Neither am I.

May be. Go for it.

What do you mean by apologist, and who are you referring to?

@skado Don't clutch those pearls too hard, you'll break them.

@ChestRockfield
Not sure what you mean, but the questions still stand. Are you saying I’m an apologist, or Thich Nhat Hanh?

@skado He might be, don't know, and no interest in finding out. You clearly are.

@ChestRockfield
My dictionary gives more than one definition for that word.
In what way do you mean it?