Joe Karlovich

'So, there are still vaccine backers and those lines are their sticking points. I like to engage these folks where I can to try to understand where they are coming from.

I have had conversations with vaccine advocated who claim it was never meant to stop transmission, despite the trials testing for efficacy. Pushed efficacy as the reason to get jabbed. When efficacy went to zero, and if you point that out, they conveniently switch topics to "it was always meant to stop death and serious disease." and had to change the definition of a vaccine to fit that. Now that isn't entirely a lie, but its not the truth either. All other vaccines reduce death and serious illness by efficacy, ie less people getting it. Not the covid shots. There is no efficacy with covid shots. They rely on a temporal effect that boosts the immune system for a brief benefit. Granted this was never the intent of the shot, but they got lucky and get a brief benefit from making their body a spike protein factory.

In the mean time, vaccine advocates claim its the "not vaccinated enough" vaccinated who are to blame for the increase in deaths, which in their eyes makes sense since they see the effects as temporary thus the need for the booster. Of course the gaslighting is that they were always meant to be temporary. It also disproves the point they are trying to make that they protect against death and serious illness, but they just claim to get more of them! Vaccine advocates also deny any possible adverse effect from the shots. They don't acknowledge it so they only take into account the brief benefit. These are people who should have a modicum of brain power, ie doctors, nurses, medical professionals. They will lie straight to your face as if it is ok. I like to try to understand where people are coming from but where they are is unfortunate because you can't reason with them. In denying the adverse effects, there is never a time where it is not ok to just get another booster because they only believe in the benefit.'

Horsey
'The reason you hear so many people repeating the new moved goalposts line is because the alternative is far worse for them to admit. That they were fooled.

People don't like to admit they were wrong. Worse, they don't like to admit they were fooled and wrong.

Until the house of cards collapses in actual public debate on the deaths, injuries and cost to society in a free and fair manner, this won't change. We're not there yet as the clot shot boosters remain on the market. While some countries have restricted or banned their use, we are in a different bucket.'

It has already proven to be unsafe.
That is why I post about it.

Yes, I am obsessed with getting the truth out.

@BDair does anyone have the remotest idea what is true or not these days? Between the corporate news media and a Congress controlled by big business who knows what's true and what isn't?

@TheoryNumber3 No, nobody has the remotest idea what is really true.
The alphabet agencies, ie. CDC, NIH, WHO, all hide and obfuscate the available data.
True experts of their fields, even Nobel prize winners, have had their voices silenced by
the Big Pharma owned and controlled media and social media. It has become nearly impossible to
discern fact from fiction.

@BDair It's very rare that a solution to any problem doesn't in some cases breed new problems. But I grew up during the polio epidemic and I've seen the good that vaccines can do. With Covid they're dealing with something they've never seen before and they're learning as they go. We can't deny that it's not as lethal as it was in the beginning when people were dropping like flies. I know many doctors and nurses and the stress and work load on them at the beginning of this was horrible.

But as you said there's so much misinformation out there, it's hard to know who to believe. We believe or disbelieve what we hear based on our own mindset. But I always say.... just because you like it, it doesn't mean it's true. And some of it is just willful ignorance on the part of the believer.... a willingness to accept everything they hear that fits their belief system